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Forums > Events, Performances and Gatherings > Fire Twirl with Crusty Demons of Dirt (Melb, Aust)
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
Simplicity Convoluter & Cabbage Friend
126 posts
Location: In the shadow of the wolf (somewhere over melbourn...
Simplicity Convoluter & Cabbage Friend
126 posts
Location: In the shadow of the wolf (somewhere over melbourn...
Posted:
Note this is an edited post - It summarizes all the information to date. All posts following where written prior to this event being funded and hence won't make much sense.
Fire Twirl with the Crusty Demons of Dirt At Rod Laver Arena, Melb...and Get Stuff! (Now Funded)
I am pleased to announce there will be a budget for this event ...Thanks guys! - Final details will follow soon. (It won't be huge but it will be there!)
(Skip Below if you are just interested in budget update.)
Fire Twirl with The Crusty Demons of Dirt; Event Details
Event:
50+ Fire Twirlers / Breathers wanted for a 4 min group fire display at the Crusty Demon of Dirt Show in Melbourne Australia at the Rod Laver Arena on 21st & 22nd May 2004 (Fri & Sat night)*
Participants will get in for free & receive an aditional free ticket ($80 value) to the second show so a friend can come & see you. Participants will recieve a ‘thank you store credit’ * for a major fire supplies store (ammount and place redeemable will be posted by end of the week) .
* Please note this ‘store credit’ can not, and is not to be construed or interpreted in any way, shape of form as payment.
The production will also appear on the next Crusty Demons DVD so you can show everone after if you want – all fuel for the performances will be supplied including non-toxic oils for fire breathers.
Who Can Participate:
Anyone who would like the experience of being a part of a show this size – everybody will be on together creating a mass fire effect rather than a focus on individuals. Participants of any level are welcome but must commit to attending.
Participants Must:
Contact me ASAP at: crystalflame@mail.com
Leave your full name, contact number / s and the date of the show you can attend (Both is preferable but send me you details regardless) Include if you are a fire twirler, breather or both.
You will be contacted back within a week to confirm you attendance and receive a full briefing.
There will probably be a cut off point on numbers so please forward me your detail ASAP if interested.
As a last resort I can be contacted on 0421 851 886 but DON'T CALL unless you are unable to contact me via email.
P.s. There will also be an additional budget for 20 of these people who want to arrive a bit early and be part of the derelict / industrial theme . People wanted to play / act as ‘homeless people’ displayed around entrance area for atmospheric purposes and a small amount of crowd interaction for aditional store credit value - see Buget update).
*Crusty Demons will be doing a similar show in each state feel free to email me if you are interested in participating in a different state and I will forward your details to the appropriate event organizer (Mark in the subject field of your email which state you are from).
Budget Update:
Budget will appear in the form of a ‘thank you store credit’ for a major fire supplies store . Please note this ‘store credit’ can not, and is not to be construed or interpreted in any way, shape of form as payment . Each performer will also receive a free $80 ticket for a friend to come and see them at the second show.
'Store credit' will be about $30 per person + $50 if you want to do the 'homeless improve' thing at beginning (see above) + Free $80 ticket for friend to second show and all fuel paid for. - Doesn't sound like a heap but it's actually more than most professional 5 person troupes charge - It's just spread out over so many people. Yes they could afford professional troupes and have rejected at least 2 professional quotes that I know of for less than they are paying now - They want quantity / lots of performer for their show - it's their prerogative
Once again - these figures aren't final -Verbally they have been agreed to but the paperwork won't be signed till wed...so realistically I should know by Friday.
Safety Update:
A safety Buffer area of 3 meters cubed+ will be in place from the crowd and all crusty demons performers sign wavers saying it’s not your problem if you hit them…DON’T but if you do accidentally you aren’t liable. The venue itself will be covered in dirt and can’t catch on fire – and being the sort of show it is there will be plenty of fire safety equipment on site should the unforeseeable occur.
Those of you who are under 18 and have been emailing me – YES you can perform but you must get a parental consent form signed.
I’ll post the full details on amount for store credit once paperwork signed and finalised but in the mean time it looks like there will either be a cut off at 50 performers for the ‘store credit’; or people who are participating can elect to have they amount evenly distributed among attendees – currently first in best dressed and decision will be upon to first 50 on if they want to share or not. – So get in quick.
Email me ASAP if you want to be a part of it. (See Above)
There has been an onging saga with this event: All posts below relate to that - this post summarises the first 2 pages of this thread.
EDITED_BY: Tyr (1083561228)
Note this is an edited post - It summarizes all the information to date. All posts following where written prior to this event being funded and hence won't make much sense.
Fire Twirl with the Crusty Demons of Dirt At Rod Laver Arena, Melb...and Get Stuff! (Now Funded)
I am pleased to announce there will be a budget for this event ...Thanks guys! - Final details will follow soon. (It won't be huge but it will be there!)
(Skip Below if you are just interested in budget update.)
Fire Twirl with The Crusty Demons of Dirt; Event Details
Event:
50+ Fire Twirlers / Breathers wanted for a 4 min group fire display at the Crusty Demon of Dirt Show in Melbourne Australia at the Rod Laver Arena on 21st & 22nd May 2004 (Fri & Sat night)*
Participants will get in for free & receive an aditional free ticket ($80 value) to the second show so a friend can come & see you. Participants will recieve a ‘thank you store credit’ * for a major fire supplies store (ammount and place redeemable will be posted by end of the week) .
* Please note this ‘store credit’ can not, and is not to be construed or interpreted in any way, shape of form as payment.
The production will also appear on the next Crusty Demons DVD so you can show everone after if you want – all fuel for the performances will be supplied including non-toxic oils for fire breathers.
Who Can Participate:
Anyone who would like the experience of being a part of a show this size – everybody will be on together creating a mass fire effect rather than a focus on individuals. Participants of any level are welcome but must commit to attending.
Participants Must:
Contact me ASAP at: crystalflame@mail.com
Leave your full name, contact number / s and the date of the show you can attend (Both is preferable but send me you details regardless) Include if you are a fire twirler, breather or both.
You will be contacted back within a week to confirm you attendance and receive a full briefing.
There will probably be a cut off point on numbers so please forward me your detail ASAP if interested.
As a last resort I can be contacted on 0421 851 886 but DON'T CALL unless you are unable to contact me via email.
P.s. There will also be an additional budget for 20 of these people who want to arrive a bit early and be part of the derelict / industrial theme . People wanted to play / act as ‘homeless people’ displayed around entrance area for atmospheric purposes and a small amount of crowd interaction for aditional store credit value - see Buget update).
*Crusty Demons will be doing a similar show in each state feel free to email me if you are interested in participating in a different state and I will forward your details to the appropriate event organizer (Mark in the subject field of your email which state you are from).
Budget Update:
Budget will appear in the form of a ‘thank you store credit’ for a major fire supplies store . Please note this ‘store credit’ can not, and is not to be construed or interpreted in any way, shape of form as payment . Each performer will also receive a free $80 ticket for a friend to come and see them at the second show.
'Store credit' will be about $30 per person + $50 if you want to do the 'homeless improve' thing at beginning (see above) + Free $80 ticket for friend to second show and all fuel paid for. - Doesn't sound like a heap but it's actually more than most professional 5 person troupes charge - It's just spread out over so many people. Yes they could afford professional troupes and have rejected at least 2 professional quotes that I know of for less than they are paying now - They want quantity / lots of performer for their show - it's their prerogative
Once again - these figures aren't final -Verbally they have been agreed to but the paperwork won't be signed till wed...so realistically I should know by Friday.
Safety Update:
A safety Buffer area of 3 meters cubed+ will be in place from the crowd and all crusty demons performers sign wavers saying it’s not your problem if you hit them…DON’T but if you do accidentally you aren’t liable. The venue itself will be covered in dirt and can’t catch on fire – and being the sort of show it is there will be plenty of fire safety equipment on site should the unforeseeable occur.
Those of you who are under 18 and have been emailing me – YES you can perform but you must get a parental consent form signed.
I’ll post the full details on amount for store credit once paperwork signed and finalised but in the mean time it looks like there will either be a cut off at 50 performers for the ‘store credit’; or people who are participating can elect to have they amount evenly distributed among attendees – currently first in best dressed and decision will be upon to first 50 on if they want to share or not. – So get in quick.
Email me ASAP if you want to be a part of it. (See Above)
There has been an onging saga with this event: All posts below relate to that - this post summarises the first 2 pages of this thread.
EDITED_BY: Tyr (1083561228)
“What are you creatures of Fantastica? Dreams, poetic inventions, characters in a neverending story.”
Gmork
‘The Neverending Story’
member
340 posts
Location: Australia
340 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Questions:
How much is the fire store credit?
Is this for both fire shows or just one?
If we do both fire shows, do we get two tickets and 2 lots of store credit?
What preparation will the be as far as choreography?
Suggestions:
Choreography is highly recommended if you want to do a professional show, it will be easy considering it is only a 4 minute set.
Pay 25 professional fire dancers $150 each for a 4 minute set plus a small choreography session, it will cost you a lot less than gift vouchers and free tickets plus it will look twice as good as 50 amateurs.
With a firedancer specific safety crew and a designated firedancer who leads the other fire dancers, I would be willing to endorse the show as professional.
Questions:
How much is the fire store credit?
Is this for both fire shows or just one?
If we do both fire shows, do we get two tickets and 2 lots of store credit?
What preparation will the be as far as choreography?
Suggestions:
Choreography is highly recommended if you want to do a professional show, it will be easy considering it is only a 4 minute set.
Pay 25 professional fire dancers $150 each for a 4 minute set plus a small choreography session, it will cost you a lot less than gift vouchers and free tickets plus it will look twice as good as 50 amateurs.
With a firedancer specific safety crew and a designated firedancer who leads the other fire dancers, I would be willing to endorse the show as professional.
HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.
GOLD Member
.
420 posts
Location: United Kingdom
.
420 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
I agree with BB, but I want to give Tyr credit for getting it this far...
well done mate...keep it up, make it rock solid
nice one
dave
I agree with BB, but I want to give Tyr credit for getting it this far...
well done mate...keep it up, make it rock solid
nice one
dave
SILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Posted:
Well anyway i've been busy helping a friend preparing for a wedding performance (that will pay more !).
And i'll forward you the email i received form steve alberts . Anyway im going now and cant be bothered with argueing you (cause your in a bad spot . Meaning trying to organise this and keep everybody i can see your doing your best as agreed with knoxious in the above statement ./ sorry mate ).
Knoxious and bb you guys Rock !.
Well anyway i've been busy helping a friend preparing for a wedding performance (that will pay more !).
And i'll forward you the email i received form steve alberts . Anyway im going now and cant be bothered with argueing you (cause your in a bad spot . Meaning trying to organise this and keep everybody i can see your doing your best as agreed with knoxious in the above statement ./ sorry mate ).
Knoxious and bb you guys Rock !.
that shrewd and knavish sprite
Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy
I am the merry wander of the night -puk
GOLD Member
old man fire
27 posts
Location: Seymour, Victoria, Australia
old man fire
27 posts
Location: Seymour, Victoria, Australia
Posted:
hmm. because there is gonna be a show in 2005, i re-ignite the theme.
i did the shows in '04. had a ball. don't give a flying frog's donger that i didn't get paid. i am a motocross fan, and besides, i got my sooty little fingers onto a backstage pass and had an enjoyable half hour running away from security before i made it into the green room.
reading the posts here so far, it just seems to me there's a heap of bitter old twirlers who don't enjoy twirling any more, believe they are much much better than reality, and reckon they should get paid for something that (proven at the last confest) every drug-taking sleazebag can do!
guys! reality check! the only people who notice when there is class twirling happening within sight are EXPERIENCED TWIRLERS. 99% of the general public go "wow" to someone who just picked up a stick just as much as to someone who has been twirling for years. and the people who promote ANY successful production, be it Crusty Demons, Big Day Out, ConFest or any of a dozen raves thruout the year (all of which i will twirl at just so i can get in and have an "adventure" - wink wink) those people KNOW this, and they also know that for every whinging twenty- or thirty-something twirler they have to put up with (although not for long) there are at least 15 naieve stupid teenagers who are willing to do it for nothing.
yeh. i just had a rant. so smegging what? so have a lot of other people here, and how much good has it done?
how many people who read this can HONESTLY say they earn a living from spinning, throwing or spitting FIRE ?
and then how many are like me and are going to enjoy themselves anyway and not give a s**t?
jeff pyrotek the rat
hmm. because there is gonna be a show in 2005, i re-ignite the theme.
i did the shows in '04. had a ball. don't give a flying frog's donger that i didn't get paid. i am a motocross fan, and besides, i got my sooty little fingers onto a backstage pass and had an enjoyable half hour running away from security before i made it into the green room.
reading the posts here so far, it just seems to me there's a heap of bitter old twirlers who don't enjoy twirling any more, believe they are much much better than reality, and reckon they should get paid for something that (proven at the last confest) every drug-taking sleazebag can do!
guys! reality check! the only people who notice when there is class twirling happening within sight are EXPERIENCED TWIRLERS. 99% of the general public go "wow" to someone who just picked up a stick just as much as to someone who has been twirling for years. and the people who promote ANY successful production, be it Crusty Demons, Big Day Out, ConFest or any of a dozen raves thruout the year (all of which i will twirl at just so i can get in and have an "adventure" - wink wink) those people KNOW this, and they also know that for every whinging twenty- or thirty-something twirler they have to put up with (although not for long) there are at least 15 naieve stupid teenagers who are willing to do it for nothing.
yeh. i just had a rant. so smegging what? so have a lot of other people here, and how much good has it done?
how many people who read this can HONESTLY say they earn a living from spinning, throwing or spitting FIRE ?
and then how many are like me and are going to enjoy themselves anyway and not give a s**t?
jeff pyrotek the rat
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
about mentioning confest in the same light as big day out and other commercial ventures.... confest is struggling to continue it's fire program. The drought and Marnie not being involved anymore means that we will be lucky to have a fire circle at all. One thing's for sure, you'd better BYO fuel, cus that's unlikely to be supplied this summer...
about mentioning confest in the same light as big day out and other commercial ventures.... confest is struggling to continue it's fire program. The drought and Marnie not being involved anymore means that we will be lucky to have a fire circle at all. One thing's for sure, you'd better BYO fuel, cus that's unlikely to be supplied this summer...
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
GOLD Member
old man fire
27 posts
Location: Seymour, Victoria, Australia
old man fire
27 posts
Location: Seymour, Victoria, Australia
Posted:
um .. bender .. there was 80 litres left over from summer confest, and marnie was there anyway. More people are always going to run the fire circle.
sheez dude you were there .. did you watch the bucket at any stage? it's amazing how people can whinge about how confest is run badly then don't do anything to help it out. It's also amazing how the people who DO help out actually KNOW how confest is run, rather than making it up themselves.
Same could be said of mose festivals i suppose, or at least most festivals that are run 100% by volunteers like confest is.
bah
Anyway. Who's gonna twirl crusty? has anyone been approached about the other motocross show in march?
EDITED_BY: arictocRAT (1105804093)
um .. bender .. there was 80 litres left over from summer confest, and marnie was there anyway. More people are always going to run the fire circle.
sheez dude you were there .. did you watch the bucket at any stage? it's amazing how people can whinge about how confest is run badly then don't do anything to help it out. It's also amazing how the people who DO help out actually KNOW how confest is run, rather than making it up themselves.
Same could be said of mose festivals i suppose, or at least most festivals that are run 100% by volunteers like confest is.
bah
Anyway. Who's gonna twirl crusty? has anyone been approached about the other motocross show in march?
EDITED_BY: arictocRAT (1105804093)
SILVER Member
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
Posted:
I they pay I will do it here in Perth...if they don't then no.
I they pay I will do it here in Perth...if they don't then no.
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Hey, its good that you enjoyed yourself. There will always be people who perform for reasons other than the money. Sometimes it is altruistic (like taking a free workshop, or doing a chaity show), sometimes its cos you get an experience that you just wouldn't be without. That is a good thing.
However CDOD does seem to be quite cynically taking advantage of this, hence the continual stories of "oh, it was a last minute thing" and "there is no budget for it". And also the inconsistency of treatment between cities (Melbourne where Tyr did such good work to get some form of recompense, as opposed to Sydney where I don't think anything was passed back).
I prefer to be treated as a sensible rational adult. If someone says "hey, we aren't gonna pay for this, but we will allow you free entry etc etc", I am free to make my own decision. Places like Woodford consistantly offer free entry in return for performances, a process where you have to apply etc etc. But CDOD continues to blow smoke up people's arses and treat us all like gullible hicks. There is no need to continually lie to people.
I have also heard from people at the Sydney show that things were not well organised. Some were asked to dress as tramps etc, but security wasn't briefed and so they almost got turfed out. Okay, that instance is funny, but if you extend the idea to talking about a bunch of fire-performers of various experience levels twirling in a fairly dangerous space...
Whilst people who perform do have a valid point, that what they do is undermined in worth by the attitude of "I can just get it for free", that is a problem for them to untangle. Its for them to prove that by paying you get something far better and more spectacular.
I do however have serious problems with the Crusty's lack of respect for performers in terms of lying to them, and not preparing or briefing properly.
So, no, I won't be twirling with CDOD.
Written by: arictocRAT
hmm. because there is gonna be a show in 2005, i re-ignite the theme.
i did the shows in '04. had a ball. don't give a flying frog's donger that i didn't get paid. ...had an enjoyable half hour running away from security before i made it into the green room.
reading the posts here so far, it just seems to me there's a heap of bitter old twirlers who don't enjoy twirling any more, believe they are much much better than reality, and reckon they should get paid for something that (proven at the last confest) every drug-taking sleazebag can do!
guys! reality check! the only people who notice when there is class twirling happening within sight are EXPERIENCED TWIRLERS. 99% of the general public go "wow" to someone who just picked up a stick ... and the people who promote ANY successful production, be it Crusty Demons, Big Day Out, ConFest or any of a dozen raves thruout the year ... those people KNOW this, and they also know that for every whinging twenty- or thirty-something twirler ...there are at least 15 naieve stupid teenagers who are willing to do it for nothing.
Hey, its good that you enjoyed yourself. There will always be people who perform for reasons other than the money. Sometimes it is altruistic (like taking a free workshop, or doing a chaity show), sometimes its cos you get an experience that you just wouldn't be without. That is a good thing.
However CDOD does seem to be quite cynically taking advantage of this, hence the continual stories of "oh, it was a last minute thing" and "there is no budget for it". And also the inconsistency of treatment between cities (Melbourne where Tyr did such good work to get some form of recompense, as opposed to Sydney where I don't think anything was passed back).
I prefer to be treated as a sensible rational adult. If someone says "hey, we aren't gonna pay for this, but we will allow you free entry etc etc", I am free to make my own decision. Places like Woodford consistantly offer free entry in return for performances, a process where you have to apply etc etc. But CDOD continues to blow smoke up people's arses and treat us all like gullible hicks. There is no need to continually lie to people.
I have also heard from people at the Sydney show that things were not well organised. Some were asked to dress as tramps etc, but security wasn't briefed and so they almost got turfed out. Okay, that instance is funny, but if you extend the idea to talking about a bunch of fire-performers of various experience levels twirling in a fairly dangerous space...
Whilst people who perform do have a valid point, that what they do is undermined in worth by the attitude of "I can just get it for free", that is a problem for them to untangle. Its for them to prove that by paying you get something far better and more spectacular.
I do however have serious problems with the Crusty's lack of respect for performers in terms of lying to them, and not preparing or briefing properly.
So, no, I won't be twirling with CDOD.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
aside from opinions about this company & the way they do business..
or even the deeper issues about professionalism/undercutting/fees for arts/whatever (but personally a thumbs up to Rozi's comments above)
I just wanted to relate out experience last year for anyone who happens to get in a negotiating situation with them re $$ side of things and what has transpired at various times...
((edited out boring bit about our history with them))
Last year when they came to town again they called us directly (first time we had the chance to directly negotiate with them)... we were already booked up doing full paid gigs but I offered to source 8 semi-professional/hobbyists for a fee of $1000 per night (well below what I consider professional rates, but a lot more than nothing).
they refused the quote saying they didn't have the budget
this was a week before the show.. and we really didn't care wither way..
The day before they rang me back and agreed to the fees of $2000+GST..
so they do have money to spend on fire performers if they can't get them for free... probably a lot more than that in fact..
the reality is for what they are doing in their shows - they aren't interested in quality.. they don't care.. they just want a bunch of fire twirlers. so if they can get it for free - great. supply & demand.. the basic principles of business..
it's a smelly, dirty, grotty, noisy, unsafe work environment.. but if you're into that kind of thing well cool...
oh, incidentally, we insisted they sign a contract and pay up front before the show.. it's fairly standard practise but they wouldn't suggest it themselves... but their reputation certainly warrants it... no point negotiating any fee without being sure it will come through.
anyhow.. just a bit more info for those of you who might want to know.....
aside from opinions about this company & the way they do business..
or even the deeper issues about professionalism/undercutting/fees for arts/whatever (but personally a thumbs up to Rozi's comments above)
I just wanted to relate out experience last year for anyone who happens to get in a negotiating situation with them re $$ side of things and what has transpired at various times...
((edited out boring bit about our history with them))
Last year when they came to town again they called us directly (first time we had the chance to directly negotiate with them)... we were already booked up doing full paid gigs but I offered to source 8 semi-professional/hobbyists for a fee of $1000 per night (well below what I consider professional rates, but a lot more than nothing).
they refused the quote saying they didn't have the budget
this was a week before the show.. and we really didn't care wither way..The day before they rang me back and agreed to the fees of $2000+GST..
so they do have money to spend on fire performers if they can't get them for free... probably a lot more than that in fact..
the reality is for what they are doing in their shows - they aren't interested in quality.. they don't care.. they just want a bunch of fire twirlers. so if they can get it for free - great. supply & demand.. the basic principles of business..
it's a smelly, dirty, grotty, noisy, unsafe work environment.. but if you're into that kind of thing well cool...
oh, incidentally, we insisted they sign a contract and pay up front before the show.. it's fairly standard practise but they wouldn't suggest it themselves... but their reputation certainly warrants it... no point negotiating any fee without being sure it will come through.
anyhow.. just a bit more info for those of you who might want to know.....
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
i hope they are reading this.
big hugs to you, northern flamey girl!!!
it's a bit pants when people exploit such a wonderful art.
bill
i hope they are reading this.
big hugs to you, northern flamey girl!!!
it's a bit pants when people exploit such a wonderful art.
bill
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
hugs to you too sweetie .:*:.
..the great thing about this community is that we can all share our individual experiences here and be more aware of what the overall picture is.. that way each individual can make up their own mind depending on their own unique circumstances...
It is a bigger story than just one company & their dirt shows...
I guess the more info we share, the more everyone understands what this "market" is that we are part of (whether we choose to enter the commercial side of our art or not) and what "value" we (as a community and individually) and our clients put on it...
hmmm... business 
it's a funny thing... 
hugs to you too sweetie .:*:.
..the great thing about this community is that we can all share our individual experiences here and be more aware of what the overall picture is.. that way each individual can make up their own mind depending on their own unique circumstances...
It is a bigger story than just one company & their dirt shows...
I guess the more info we share, the more everyone understands what this "market" is that we are part of (whether we choose to enter the commercial side of our art or not) and what "value" we (as a community and individually) and our clients put on it...
hmmm... business
it's a funny thing... GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
that it mate, it's a sobering thought, but a necessary one!!
love or money eh?
that it mate, it's a sobering thought, but a necessary one!!
love or money eh?
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
my friend, i must respectfully disagree.
my post was dated before summer confest responsibility has been shifted to Michael for at least the last 3 confests
if you think that my post was complaining about confest, that i don't help out, then i urge you to find out a little bit more about me before implying that i am making stuff up.
please say hi next time u recognise me, k mate? :hugs:
my friend, i must respectfully disagree.
Written by: arictocRAT
um .. bender .. there was 80 litres left over from summer confest, and marnie was there anyway. More people are always going to run the fire circle.
my post was dated before summer confest
responsibility has been shifted to Michael for at least the last 3 confestsWritten by: arictocRAT
sheez dude you were there .. did you watch the bucket at any stage? it's amazing how people can whinge about how confest is run badly then don't do anything to help it out. It's also amazing how the people who DO help out actually KNOW how confest is run, rather than making it up themselves.
if you think that my post was complaining about confest, that i don't help out, then i urge you to find out a little bit more about me before implying that i am making stuff up.
please say hi next time u recognise me, k mate? :hugs:
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