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Forums > Technical Discussion > Bearclaw "Hybrid" Wicks
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm currently using 2.5inch Pureflame Fire Poi (purchased from this site), which are really well built and a pleasure to use, but give really short burn times (soaked for a couple of hours gives about 5 minutes burn time with paraffin).
I found whilst surfing the net tonight a site (Bearclaw) in america making poi with "Hybrid wicks", which they claim to have double the burn time of normal kevlar. If they really do, I want some! However, is the kevlar used in the Pure Flame firepoi the same stuff as this "hybrid" stuff, or the regular kevlar with half burn time? I don't want to waste my money (I've already spent about 100 quid on this hobby in the last couple of months).
If they are worth getting, does anyone know where online I can get them? Bearclaw offer online shopping, but it doesn't use ssl to submit cc details. Having been a UNIX sysadmin for several years and having had my credit card ripped off once, I know that sending details unencrypted is just a really, really, really stupid idea. Their UK shipping prices are also a bit steep at 40 us dollars. The couple of orders I've made from HOP have cost about half this and have been delivered in about a week (the last one took just 4 days!).
Ta
I'm currently using 2.5inch Pureflame Fire Poi (purchased from this site), which are really well built and a pleasure to use, but give really short burn times (soaked for a couple of hours gives about 5 minutes burn time with paraffin).
I found whilst surfing the net tonight a site (Bearclaw) in america making poi with "Hybrid wicks", which they claim to have double the burn time of normal kevlar. If they really do, I want some! However, is the kevlar used in the Pure Flame firepoi the same stuff as this "hybrid" stuff, or the regular kevlar with half burn time? I don't want to waste my money (I've already spent about 100 quid on this hobby in the last couple of months).
If they are worth getting, does anyone know where online I can get them? Bearclaw offer online shopping, but it doesn't use ssl to submit cc details. Having been a UNIX sysadmin for several years and having had my credit card ripped off once, I know that sending details unencrypted is just a really, really, really stupid idea. Their UK shipping prices are also a bit steep at 40 us dollars. The couple of orders I've made from HOP have cost about half this and have been delivered in about a week (the last one took just 4 days!).
Ta
member
62 posts
Location: New York (its not as cool as you think)
62 posts
Location: New York (its not as cool as you think)
Posted:
you soak your wicks for a couple of hours? holy jebus!
you soak your wicks for a couple of hours? holy jebus!
From the makers of soylent green.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
And while we are on the topic, can anyone explain to me why they have kevlar grips???
And while we are on the topic, can anyone explain to me why they have kevlar grips???
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SILVER Member
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
yeah, Charles, i was wondering about that too... Looks a bit dodgy to me.
first up tho!
you dont need to soak your wicks! a quick dip, will give you the SAME spin time, as soaking for several hours (i learnt this the hard way)
a good way to increase your flame time, is to use more refined fuel. Over here we have something called firewater, i dont know what it would be where you are. But basically, its more refined, and burns three times as long....
goodluck!
yeah, Charles, i was wondering about that too... Looks a bit dodgy to me.
first up tho!
you dont need to soak your wicks! a quick dip, will give you the SAME spin time, as soaking for several hours (i learnt this the hard way)
a good way to increase your flame time, is to use more refined fuel. Over here we have something called firewater, i dont know what it would be where you are. But basically, its more refined, and burns three times as long....
goodluck!
Currently on the right side up of the world.
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
if u are talking about bearclaw countach wicks, then read on...
if u are talking about bearclaw countach wicks, then read on...
quote:100 burns!?!?!?! I'll have the kevlar, thanks ma'am!
Originally posted by Tedward:
[QB]The bearclaw hybrids run about 100 burns, depending on how you use 'em. If you tend to burn several times in rapid succession, then they don't last as long ias if you burn 'em once a week (in number of burns).
I think it has something to do with an internal breakover temperature that causes the cotton to break down. Once that starts, they go within a few burns.
QB]
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
member
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
Posted:
Charles
using it for the grips is prob a great way to use up your left over kevlar..I fiond the stuff way to abrasive for my likes
Charles
using it for the grips is prob a great way to use up your left over kevlar..I fiond the stuff way to abrasive for my likes
I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
(* take no sides * ever * among global pyro family * support & increase all goodwill in pyros *)
why not just e-mail tedward@bearclawmfg.com (i think that's how his works, if not you can mail to web@tedward.org, though i don't know how often he checks that one) with any questions?
i would have e-mailed you in case there was anything i could do for you, being an hour and a half from Culver City in good traffic and phone-close enough, flid, but you don't have one listed!
if i can be of any help, as far as i know, daring to say it here, i'm on good speaking terms with both Home of Poi management and Bearclaw, because Bearclaw is in my regional firenetwork's territory, and owner Tedward is a key Los Angeles County organizer of our common pyro family.
i haven't tried using those hybrid poi lit, have handled them from the outside when new. the kev grips are just. . . funny. can't speak about their performance in action. maybe Riz can?
my notes from an old phone convo seem to say most pure kevlar poi are made of kevlar nomax, while Dubé (NY) kevlar wicks burn longer but are not as absorbent, either those or the Bearclaw hybrids are kevlar nomax + aparamid blend? Bearclaw cites their hybrids as absorbing 110% of their weight in fuel.
~ seeking to share anything i know and to be helpful in any way i can be of service to you, letting knowledge and fraternity spread among us to make our future burns the best in the world,
~ Mike/ SoCalFire (including OrangeFire)
[ 17 October 2002, 19:17: Message edited by: FíreMîke ]
(* take no sides * ever * among global pyro family * support & increase all goodwill in pyros *)
why not just e-mail tedward@bearclawmfg.com (i think that's how his works, if not you can mail to web@tedward.org, though i don't know how often he checks that one) with any questions?
i would have e-mailed you in case there was anything i could do for you, being an hour and a half from Culver City in good traffic and phone-close enough, flid, but you don't have one listed!
if i can be of any help, as far as i know, daring to say it here, i'm on good speaking terms with both Home of Poi management and Bearclaw, because Bearclaw is in my regional firenetwork's territory, and owner Tedward is a key Los Angeles County organizer of our common pyro family.
i haven't tried using those hybrid poi lit, have handled them from the outside when new. the kev grips are just. . . funny. can't speak about their performance in action. maybe Riz can?
my notes from an old phone convo seem to say most pure kevlar poi are made of kevlar nomax, while Dubé (NY) kevlar wicks burn longer but are not as absorbent, either those or the Bearclaw hybrids are kevlar nomax + aparamid blend? Bearclaw cites their hybrids as absorbing 110% of their weight in fuel.
~ seeking to share anything i know and to be helpful in any way i can be of service to you, letting knowledge and fraternity spread among us to make our future burns the best in the world,
~ Mike/ SoCalFire (including OrangeFire)
[ 17 October 2002, 19:17: Message edited by: FíreMîke ]
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
member
38 posts
Location: san diego, ca
38 posts
Location: san diego, ca
Posted:
wanted to bump this up because I got a chance to use a set of Bearclaw hybrids this weekend. The burn time and weight was great. The only problem with them was we ran out of white gas and used lamp oil on them. It ruined the wicks. Most of the material on the inside got fried and the kevlar stitching failed. They must have been smouldering on the inside long after they felt safe and I'm a bit worried about that as I don't want to leave them somewhere and have them set fire to something. I couldn't make out what kind of material was used on the inside but would really like to know. would also like to see how they stand up over time using the proper fuel.
wanted to bump this up because I got a chance to use a set of Bearclaw hybrids this weekend. The burn time and weight was great. The only problem with them was we ran out of white gas and used lamp oil on them. It ruined the wicks. Most of the material on the inside got fried and the kevlar stitching failed. They must have been smouldering on the inside long after they felt safe and I'm a bit worried about that as I don't want to leave them somewhere and have them set fire to something. I couldn't make out what kind of material was used on the inside but would really like to know. would also like to see how they stand up over time using the proper fuel.
BRONZE Member
member
69 posts
Location: Tucson, USA
member
69 posts
Location: Tucson, USA
Posted:
Could this failure have been from using white gas in the first place? I'd imagine, since it burns at a higher temperature, that it would more easily damage wicks.
Renegade and bearclaw both sell Kevlar/nomex wick, not counting the hybrid wick. Nomex is fairly absorbent, and I suggested on the "mokey fist" thread that nomex could be used as the core. nomex is an aramid that is used for industrial insulation, like kevlar. The resistance to damage from thermal issues should be much higher than cotton. It pretty cheap, and hybrid wicks i have tried have incorporated it (have not tried the monkey fist).
The main point is, if you want to burn with white gas and don't want everything to get destroyed, you'd have better luck with a nomex interior, which will still soak up a good deal, and a kevlar/nomex exterior.
MJ
Flamma Aeterna
Could this failure have been from using white gas in the first place? I'd imagine, since it burns at a higher temperature, that it would more easily damage wicks.
Renegade and bearclaw both sell Kevlar/nomex wick, not counting the hybrid wick. Nomex is fairly absorbent, and I suggested on the "mokey fist" thread that nomex could be used as the core. nomex is an aramid that is used for industrial insulation, like kevlar. The resistance to damage from thermal issues should be much higher than cotton. It pretty cheap, and hybrid wicks i have tried have incorporated it (have not tried the monkey fist).
The main point is, if you want to burn with white gas and don't want everything to get destroyed, you'd have better luck with a nomex interior, which will still soak up a good deal, and a kevlar/nomex exterior.
MJ
Flamma Aeterna
That which does not kill me, only makes me stranger.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
fibreglass is another possibility, I would think fibreglass insulation would hold a lot more then kevlar and last longer then cotton, used as a core it shouldn't be that bad.
fibreglass is another possibility, I would think fibreglass insulation would hold a lot more then kevlar and last longer then cotton, used as a core it shouldn't be that bad.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
From my discussions with people who have used these "hybrid wicks", it seems that when they are ready to fall aprt they do so in a few burns, rather than the gradual degrading of purely kevlar type wicks.
It may not have been either fuel that made them fall apart, it could have just been "their time to die".
LL Cool Pat, your comment about smouldering is a very genuine risk with large wicks.
With any large wick, especially those with cotten inside them, you need to dunk them into a liquid until it has soaked through ALL the materials to prevent smouldering. Most people use cold fuel to do this if using kero or pegasol/solvent 3440 special.
If the wicks have not been soaked all the way through, there is no way of knowing if any residual heat could light them up again in the future...
From my discussions with people who have used these "hybrid wicks", it seems that when they are ready to fall aprt they do so in a few burns, rather than the gradual degrading of purely kevlar type wicks.
It may not have been either fuel that made them fall apart, it could have just been "their time to die".
LL Cool Pat, your comment about smouldering is a very genuine risk with large wicks.
With any large wick, especially those with cotten inside them, you need to dunk them into a liquid until it has soaked through ALL the materials to prevent smouldering. Most people use cold fuel to do this if using kero or pegasol/solvent 3440 special.
If the wicks have not been soaked all the way through, there is no way of knowing if any residual heat could light them up again in the future...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
BRONZE Member
member
69 posts
Location: Tucson, USA
member
69 posts
Location: Tucson, USA
Posted:
Astar,
Actually, the main wick we sell in bulk and with our equipment is KEVLAR/fiberglass. Not a "hybrid," as Bearclaw uses the term, but fiberglass strands woven with kevlar. We prefer it over the other wick types we've tried because the fiberglass adds a lot of resistance to damage from heat, and the way the wick is woven, it is really absorbent.
MJ
Flamma Aeterna
Astar,
Actually, the main wick we sell in bulk and with our equipment is KEVLAR/fiberglass. Not a "hybrid," as Bearclaw uses the term, but fiberglass strands woven with kevlar. We prefer it over the other wick types we've tried because the fiberglass adds a lot of resistance to damage from heat, and the way the wick is woven, it is really absorbent.
MJ
Flamma Aeterna
That which does not kill me, only makes me stranger.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Yeah I understand a lot of wicks are a kevlar/fibreglass blend. What I was suggesting is the same style as the bearclaw hybrids only with fibreglass fluffy insulation instead of cotton. You know the pink stuff you stuff in walls? I think if you packed that stuff tight it would absorb just as much as cotton and have excellent heat absorbtion. This would be your core and you could wrap kevlar or a kevlar fibreglass blend around it.
Yeah I understand a lot of wicks are a kevlar/fibreglass blend. What I was suggesting is the same style as the bearclaw hybrids only with fibreglass fluffy insulation instead of cotton. You know the pink stuff you stuff in walls? I think if you packed that stuff tight it would absorb just as much as cotton and have excellent heat absorbtion. This would be your core and you could wrap kevlar or a kevlar fibreglass blend around it.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
A friend of mine had the hybrid/countach wicks. They fell apart before 100 burns and when that happened, they started releasing little bits and pieces of hot wick, especially on wraps.
My opinion is that countach wicks should be reserved for shows and that they should be very carefully inspected before each use. Obviously, firetoys aren't toys, but countach wicks are the "not toys" of firetoys.
On the plus side, they do burn forever and they do burn quite bright.
A friend of mine had the hybrid/countach wicks. They fell apart before 100 burns and when that happened, they started releasing little bits and pieces of hot wick, especially on wraps.
My opinion is that countach wicks should be reserved for shows and that they should be very carefully inspected before each use. Obviously, firetoys aren't toys, but countach wicks are the "not toys" of firetoys.
On the plus side, they do burn forever and they do burn quite bright.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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