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SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Hi everyone,

Not entirely sure where to put this, but I thought that i only do Staff, so this'll be where I put it...

Hitting myself I don't mind, because it's generally a one-off on somewhere like my shin, or arm or head. If it hurts too much, I stop spinning for a few minutes.

What REALLY annoys me is that my right hand begins to hurt after prolonged spinning. Not the joints or knuckles or anything, but the area between Thumb and Index finger. Just the "V" where the two digits meet.

Is this normal? Will it go away the more I spin? Do I just ignore it? Should I get a softer handle, or gloves? Anyone get the same thing? confused

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


LavatwilightGOLD Member
old hand
834 posts
Location: Wellington somerset, UK


Posted:
i seam to remember giving my self a lil rsi, but it went away, do you do lots of throws and catches? and what is your grip like at the mo, or is th staff rubbing that part of your hand?

Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Er, I mostly do Vertical throws (about 5m high). The rest of it is just spinning. I don't do contact, and the grip is Insulation Tape around wooden dowel.
There aren't any marks on the skin, but it feels like a bruise that doesn't go away unless I stop spinning for about 3 days.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


quietanalytic
503 posts
Location: bristol


Posted:
Yeah, it'll go away eventually; but I'd advise against spinning continually. When it hurts, stop, and take a day off. You need to give your body time to build up resistance to that sort of thing.

Incidentally, be a little bit careful on the high vertical throws. I was doing contact throws & catches onto the back of my hand, and caught it off-centre. I managed to shatter the tip of my ring finger, and I'm having to go in for surgery (one year on) to fix it. This means general anaesthetic, the removal of a fingernail, and a number of stitches. Eew. Not helpful, given that I work as a medical secretary, and have got a dissertation to write over the summer. The extent of the damage was largely due to the unpadded wooden contact staff that I was using: I'd be inclined to put at least some sort of padding along much of the staff. It doesn't have to be very bulky, but enough to soften the impact.

ture na sig


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Sorry to hear about your accident. All sympathies and concern from this end. Hope it's not too bad...

I buggered my middle finger doing a throw, but it only stopped me using that hand for the day lol. It got better after that...

Padding... right. I get the impression that most people use Tennis/Hockey stick grips. My only concern with that is how it would affect palm spins etc. Isn't there too much friction?

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


GherkinGOLD Member
Inventor
117 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
You can still do palm spins with Hockey Stick Grip, but they don't work as well... It's great for throws though.

fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
Hey - hope your hand feels better. Take it easy, don't push it so that it hurts, and hopefully the strength will build up.

I have an interesting one at the moment - my ribs kill. I stretch thoroughly (after Bluecat told me to) but I'm spinning Strugz's heavy(ish) doubles and I think that's somehow connected to my ribs feeling like they're going to give up on me.

Any hints?
It's a very odd feeling................

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
I'm not doing doubles, cos I'm not good enough yet. I'm still sorely resisting the temptation to see what it's like to spin fire, think I'll wait until I can spin for 15 mins straight without hitting myself wink

What is the average height that your arm are being held when doing doubles? E.g. above head, shoulder height?

Maybe if your arms are too high up for a prolonged length of time then it has an impact on your ribs?

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
yeah I think it's just the sheer weight of them and the fact that my arms are usually extended. Ah well - will improve I'm sure smile

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


NephrurusBRONZE Member
newbie
10 posts
Location: Penrith, NSW, Australia


Posted:
Yah, i think you'll just get used to it. I built myself a set of doubles that were quite heavy, and i used to kill myself spinning them. When i started i could'nt spin them for the entire burn! Anyway, holding the staves arms outstretched made my muscles on my back and sides lovely and... well... visable.

oh and btw Napalm, Geology is awesome, i would have majored in Geology, but the temptation of Ecology was too strong!

-Henry

"If you light a man a fire he will be warm for the night. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life!"


Delirium_Starmember
73 posts
Location: Portsmouth


Posted:
I think it's like when you learn to lay the guitar or bass you gotta keep playing with your hands to harden up the skin and evemntually it doesn't hurt any more you just gotta keep practicing ^_^

+†Delirium_57412†+


ado-pGOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland


Posted:
Written by: fluffy napalm fairy


I think that's somehow connected to my ribs feeling like they're going to give up on me.




Stop spinning with your ribs tongue

Sethis,hope your wrist is feeling better. I've had some pretty severe aches and pains around my neck, ams and back this past while. And chances are its all due to poor posture while spinning contact staff. Its taken months to recover and i still have alot of work to do.

The biggest thing for me was accepting that it would not go away by itself and that if i wanted to recover i would have to stop spinning and work on it. I ended up leaving my sticks in another city 250 miles away jsut to get them away from me.

Its much better now but if i dont stretch and loosen up every day (or at least four times a week) i can still be in alot of pain.

Invest some time in learning some good stretching excercises and warm ups.

Look after your handies smile and good luck with your spinning

a

Love is the law.


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
Neph - I think that's the first time anyone has ever shortened my name to Napalm!!! ubblol Usually it's Fluff, Fairy or FNF, Napalm makes me giggle! biggrin

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Napalm makes me scream in agony, but hey...

(Not you FNF, the chemical nastiness of polystyrene mixed with petrol)

devil

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
well yes. it's not a very PC name. but it's FLUFFY napalm - it sticks to you and covers you in fluff - i think....... smile

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


SniperBRONZE Member
Snoochie-boochie-noochies!
663 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
kinda like tarred and feathered but friendlier to chickens

SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
But just as nasty to people...

Sorry, I'll stop talking about your name now Fluff, you seem like a really excellent person (from looking round the forums) so none of this has any relation to you.

Whoops, drifted off topic again, my bad.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


fluffy napalm fairyCarpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land


Posted:
eeeps! hug

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank


Dragon7GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand


Posted:
Hey Sethis smile

I use to get that. Its overkill on the same moves (repetitive
) [sp?] I use a "pinch" now. That's when you hold the staff between your thumb and forefinger. Charles described the grip in a thread about staff moves. Its old school but helps reduce stress on your grip. Maybe you were holding to tight and going through hard planes. Moseph has a good therad about sholder movements, they also help reduce stress if you use the "pinch".

Takes awhile to master, but when you nail it you should get improved [extended] rotation with less stress on your hands.

Obviously i dont use a pinch all the time, some times i have to hold the staff but its easy to let it roll into the correct position and back into your hand again.

Oh I also agree with the healing, it has to be %100 or you will keep doing damage to it, and keep having to take days off. If you let it heal back (by not using it) it should be fine. Its a good excuse to make your left hand as strong as your right smile

Good luck and hope it works for you smile

SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Thanks for the advice, I'll see how the pinch goes. I've been forced to take an extended break anyway, cos my Staff snapped 2 days ago, and i don't have 30 quid lying around spare at the mo. Oh well, I guess it's my own fault for doing kick catches with a wooden staff...

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


DurbsBRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England


Posted:
Hmmm.

Sounds more like a muscle strain than a bruise or anything.
Perhaps you're over-gripping your staff and causing cramp?
I know I got/get similar pains when I drum after I haven't for a while, usually because I'm holding my sticks too tight (Same as writers cramp which I get on the rare occasion I write anything longer than a cheque...)

Simple things like relaxing your grip, warming up well (including your hands and fingers) before spinning and not being too repetitive should help.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
No it's not cramp, it feels and lasts as long as a bruise. I should be able to get a new staff with a better grip.

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Disc0annoying boy
160 posts
Location: Sweden


Posted:
i had a strange pain in my elbow bafore... in the joint sorta.... i think it showed up when i learnt the BTB weave with poi, but eventually it disappeared. after a month with no poiing at all. then i started easy with poiing a few minutes a day. after a while i increased the dose and i haven't got any problems again.

so the advise is: lay it of for a while 'til you feel good and then start off easy and then do more and more. and the become a jedi! wink

fire is just light and heat.
it's you friend!


ado-pGOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland


Posted:
sethis i just read your post again and realised that i had exactly the same pain the the same place when i started spinning staff.



It did go away and was caused by the the staff constantly moving over that spot while i was doing figure of eight moves



it did go away after a while but was pretty bad for a while too. im not sure if it was my grip that developed or if was my hands getting used to it. probably both as i use a very light 'pinch' grip now for alot of movement. i just tested this on my stick and realised the pinch grip is exactly the one that hurt before ubblol



so worry not, practise more but try varying the way you hold the staff. Watch the stick and your hand. It does all move easier when your holding the staff so that the minimum of momentum is lost as you use your hand to guide the direction of the staff instead of pulling it through moves and planes



try giving the staff more spin when its in front you and your using two hands. then let it float around using its own momentum. if you try to move the bit that hurts out of the way more it might help the staff to travel more freely



you could also try to do figure of eights with a closed grip. this minimises the momentum the staff has so its a different kind of movement. Its very difficult to do with just your wrist but if you use all your joints - wrist elbow shoulder including twisting at the waist to turn your shoulders, its much easier.



Its easier to to use the closed grip if you turn because your whole body contributes to the move. Try it in both hands and in both directions. It might be interesting to leave go different fingers at different stages of the movement. Like if you leave your index finger off on the back half of a forward figure of eight it both allows the staff to travel in that path more freely and pulls it on the opposite side.



Try doing it with your index finger on the staff so its pointing in the direction the staff is spinning....



let us know how you get on, im suddenly really interested in grips smile

Love is the law.


SethisBRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom


Posted:
Yeah, seems to be mostly the result of figure 8s cos i normally warm up with them, so I reckon it's the repetitive movement thing that's causing the problem. using both hands for 8s is an improvement, but I find it a bit restrictive. i don't do much contact, so the staff is in my right hand something like 85% of the time, although I have started using my left hand more.

I'll try using my waist and elbow more and see how that works out. Thanks for the suggestions smile

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Dragon7GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand


Posted:
Written by:

i just tested this on my stick and realised the pinch grip is exactly the one that hurt before




Dayum! Thats exactly the opposite to what I just said! ubblol but its so true... You need to find the root of the problem before you can really start to fix it.

So now you have to go through all the advice 1 by 1 untill... ubblol wink

I have also had pinch problems, but it only effects you if you have soft hands, once your hands are "hardened" wink you shouldnt get problems from the pinch. smile

I also like two handed grips. There are alot of tricks involved and most people use different styles. I usually only hold with one hand and put the back of the other hand on the staff to guide it. It then just goes from hand to hand being guided...but noone can even see if you are actually holding it in both hands or not.

Main reason being, you cant get full rotation if you hold on tight with both hands, though im sure someone here will dispute that wink ubblol like i said, different styles. Maybe you just have to find whats right for you. smile

mo-sephenthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK


Posted:
Written by: Dr4g0n7

Main reason being, you cant get full rotation if you hold on tight with both hands, though im sure someone here will dispute that wink ubblol




You called? biggrin

But more helpfully, my advice for cutting down pain would be:

A lot of the time when people spin, the staff will push your body into new positions - even just doing a figure of 8, people change position when the pressure of the staff makes them change. This is really useful when you're learning, as it's like the staff is telling you when+where to move.

However, it puts a strain on the whole joint system. Now that you've got the movement, try and anticipate the staff. If you've already configured your body for the next section of the staff's rotation, it'll flow more freely, with less strain on the body. It's quite a subtle thing, but worth drilling on as it'll give you better smoothness and understanding.

biggrin

monkeys ate my brain


entheogenGOLD Member
member
173 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany


Posted:
I went from never playing staff to staff obsession, and suffered the same damm thing. When it starts to hurt like that then its overstrained and you should definitely lay off for a bit. Once I kept going till I couldn't move my wrist for weeks, bad idea. Warming up before playing helps alot, and theres a coupld of isolation exercises that can be done to build muscles and protect the grip and wrist muscles.

One is to stand next to a vertical pole that is fixed and not moveable. Hold the pole with your thumb pointing up. Your arm should be in a right angle position with your elbow resting comfortably at your waist. Now make the movement as if you were going to move the pole to the horizontal position (it doesnt go anywhere, this is an isolation move) making sure not to move the position of the pole. Count to five, then do it the other way, and do a couple of repititions of this each day.

Another option is to squeeze a tennis ball over and over again (they usually go soft after a while so you got to keep replacing them), or something else that also works well are these spin excercise balls. Theyve got this ball in a ball, you start it by pulling a string and it spins around by making small movements in the wrist. I think they were originally made for people who had hand and wrist problems from typing too much, but they exercise the same muscles that are majore problem areas for jugglers and stick spinners.

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'


entheogenGOLD Member
member
173 posts
Location: Berlin, Germany


Posted:
oh yeah, and bandaging the hurting areas often helps enough to allow you to keep playing without aggravating the injury more.

'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'


Dragon7GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand


Posted:
Written by:


Main reason being, you cant get full rotation if you hold on tight with both hands, though im sure someone here will dispute that

Moseph
You called?




Yea sry realized that was wrong later on ubblol i was meaning shotguns, im pretty sure you cant get two handed shotguns. wink ubblol anyone want to dispute wink biggrin

ado-pGOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland


Posted:
yep wink

Love is the law.


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