Forums > Social Discussion > Defining how you save the planet
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the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
This thought was brought on by the veggies have feelings too thread, in which meat eaters are being told that veggies cause less harm to the environment than meat eaters due to meat packing industries, and that if people had to hunt and butcher their own meat, they wouldn't eat it.
To me, this is such a subjective and narrow statement, as most statements like this are.
I am a hunters daughter. I have killed and skinned my own meat and enjoyed every succulent morsel of it. In doing so I also helped with population control since there have been *horrific* deer issues here, starvation being one, which is a horrible thing to witness. Therefore, I, or my family, is doing something which is actually ending some suffering.
I have known many, MANY "ecologists" who drive some *very* old, gas guzzling, black smoke spitting cars because they are what "hippies are supposed to drive".
I have known conservationists who subscribe to tonnes of magazines and read papers they could have gotten at the library or even online.
There are many, many people who claim to be environmentally friendly, are die hard vegan, as they set up their art shops and use chemicals, fuels and other destructive elements in their "art".
And I also know people who are not die hard eco-warriors who do alot, beyond the recycle, reduce, reuse..but you would never know it. I have seen them be targetted by those who would "save the world" but only at their convenience.
It makes me weary because it is so subjective. Even the studies and the reports published are subjective, depending on which ones you follow. People demand articles as "evidence" but when you have international scientists using vague statements (as in the recent "It has been found that it is highly likely that humans are the cause of global warming." As published on Onedegree.com ..well, duh.) it makes it hard, especially because many will just dispute for their side and not believe any that are offered up. If they were really interested in both sides, they would have looked at both sides to start off with.
Which brings me to, how do you define how you *personally* help to save your corner (not what you do, but how do you define it?)
Do you expect others to take any action as well, or do you expect others to take actions in the same manner as you?
What are the concessions that you feel are unreasonable on the whole? ie: What won't you give up?
*please note, I do not wish for debates, arguements or who is right statements in this thread. As I said, I think it is subjective according to each persons life and I think that pressing our views onto someone we really don't knows life is..well..just asking for trouble. I also do not want links to articles about this stat or that stat because they honestly mean very little to me. I am interested in personal experience and opinions based on that only. Thank you.
This thought was brought on by the veggies have feelings too thread, in which meat eaters are being told that veggies cause less harm to the environment than meat eaters due to meat packing industries, and that if people had to hunt and butcher their own meat, they wouldn't eat it.
To me, this is such a subjective and narrow statement, as most statements like this are.
I am a hunters daughter. I have killed and skinned my own meat and enjoyed every succulent morsel of it. In doing so I also helped with population control since there have been *horrific* deer issues here, starvation being one, which is a horrible thing to witness. Therefore, I, or my family, is doing something which is actually ending some suffering.
I have known many, MANY "ecologists" who drive some *very* old, gas guzzling, black smoke spitting cars because they are what "hippies are supposed to drive".
I have known conservationists who subscribe to tonnes of magazines and read papers they could have gotten at the library or even online.
There are many, many people who claim to be environmentally friendly, are die hard vegan, as they set up their art shops and use chemicals, fuels and other destructive elements in their "art".
And I also know people who are not die hard eco-warriors who do alot, beyond the recycle, reduce, reuse..but you would never know it. I have seen them be targetted by those who would "save the world" but only at their convenience.
It makes me weary because it is so subjective. Even the studies and the reports published are subjective, depending on which ones you follow. People demand articles as "evidence" but when you have international scientists using vague statements (as in the recent "It has been found that it is highly likely that humans are the cause of global warming." As published on Onedegree.com ..well, duh.) it makes it hard, especially because many will just dispute for their side and not believe any that are offered up. If they were really interested in both sides, they would have looked at both sides to start off with.
Which brings me to, how do you define how you *personally* help to save your corner (not what you do, but how do you define it?)
Do you expect others to take any action as well, or do you expect others to take actions in the same manner as you?
What are the concessions that you feel are unreasonable on the whole? ie: What won't you give up?
*please note, I do not wish for debates, arguements or who is right statements in this thread. As I said, I think it is subjective according to each persons life and I think that pressing our views onto someone we really don't knows life is..well..just asking for trouble. I also do not want links to articles about this stat or that stat because they honestly mean very little to me. I am interested in personal experience and opinions based on that only. Thank you.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
I wouldn't go so far as to call it stupid and over reactionary, but they are examples that most people would have a hard time relating to. A more pertinent example may be found over on the flying thread, where we see the argument that it's somehow better to have planes flying full than half empty, so I might as well take that trip and apply this "logic" to give myself a moral get out of jail free card when it comes to contributing to global warming.
In short it's a lame argument that's meant to absolve the person form any personal responsibility when it comes to living what could be viewed as an environmentally hostile lifestyle.
Speaking of lame..if I'm reading that not chopping down a tree for a campfire ( ever try to burn green wood ? some campfire ) , telling others not to burn tents, buying a solar charger for a laptop and courtesy of the Canadian government, removing the roof racks from my car to improve fuel efficiency are any indication of societies views on what needs to be done to reduce global warming...then we as a planet are indeed screwed.
The personal responsibility component is one thing environmental activists have a hard time getting through their heads. We need more than their words, more than their protests, we need to see these guys leading by example and this fact isn't lost on the general public when we see these guys out there shrieking that "somebody should do something"
Here's a case in point. A couple of days ago an activist made a post ( on some other website ) that revolved around an organic pear he was eating at the time he wrote all about the evils of factory farming, the evils of fast food, the evils of supermarkets, how we need food security, and how ignorant we all are about local, natural foodstuffs that are supposedly growing out in "the wild". My only response, so far, to that post has been to ask just where does one get an organic pear in the middle of winter ? Has that pear been sitting in the fridge for the last 4 months ?
So on the surface it looks like this guy has written an article on how, we, the general public have gotten it all wrong, and we should all follow the writings of this happy skipping hippy who "knows" more than we do, who is more tuned into the "vibes" of the natural world and therefore somehow superior to us ignorant masses, but it's been two days so far and I still haven't received an answer to my where did the pear come from question...I can guess why, it was shipped in by the very industry the writer rails against.
It's a tough sell I know, this idea of personal responsibility, it's something very, very few people are willing to acknowledge. I spent FIVE YEARS trying to convince one of the founding members of Greenpeace that just maybe, he should consider selling his big house and move so he doesn't have to spend over two hours/day commuting to and from work, that's over 10 hours of driving/week. I tried to convince this guy that driving for hours to get to his recreational property was environmentally hostile, and that travelling around being an environmentalist might just be doing more harm than good.
He'd have none of it though, which indicated to me that his activism was more of a social/spiritual thing, you know..that whole underground, subversive sthick and led me to question that if environmentalists are only willing to make minor or no adjustments to their lifestyles..then why should I listen to, or follow their words ?
Sometimes it's hard to view environmentalism as nothing more than a self serving wank
I wouldn't go so far as to call it stupid and over reactionary, but they are examples that most people would have a hard time relating to. A more pertinent example may be found over on the flying thread, where we see the argument that it's somehow better to have planes flying full than half empty, so I might as well take that trip and apply this "logic" to give myself a moral get out of jail free card when it comes to contributing to global warming.
In short it's a lame argument that's meant to absolve the person form any personal responsibility when it comes to living what could be viewed as an environmentally hostile lifestyle.
Speaking of lame..if I'm reading that not chopping down a tree for a campfire ( ever try to burn green wood ? some campfire ) , telling others not to burn tents, buying a solar charger for a laptop and courtesy of the Canadian government, removing the roof racks from my car to improve fuel efficiency are any indication of societies views on what needs to be done to reduce global warming...then we as a planet are indeed screwed.
The personal responsibility component is one thing environmental activists have a hard time getting through their heads. We need more than their words, more than their protests, we need to see these guys leading by example and this fact isn't lost on the general public when we see these guys out there shrieking that "somebody should do something"
Here's a case in point. A couple of days ago an activist made a post ( on some other website ) that revolved around an organic pear he was eating at the time he wrote all about the evils of factory farming, the evils of fast food, the evils of supermarkets, how we need food security, and how ignorant we all are about local, natural foodstuffs that are supposedly growing out in "the wild". My only response, so far, to that post has been to ask just where does one get an organic pear in the middle of winter ? Has that pear been sitting in the fridge for the last 4 months ?
So on the surface it looks like this guy has written an article on how, we, the general public have gotten it all wrong, and we should all follow the writings of this happy skipping hippy who "knows" more than we do, who is more tuned into the "vibes" of the natural world and therefore somehow superior to us ignorant masses, but it's been two days so far and I still haven't received an answer to my where did the pear come from question...I can guess why, it was shipped in by the very industry the writer rails against.
It's a tough sell I know, this idea of personal responsibility, it's something very, very few people are willing to acknowledge. I spent FIVE YEARS trying to convince one of the founding members of Greenpeace that just maybe, he should consider selling his big house and move so he doesn't have to spend over two hours/day commuting to and from work, that's over 10 hours of driving/week. I tried to convince this guy that driving for hours to get to his recreational property was environmentally hostile, and that travelling around being an environmentalist might just be doing more harm than good.
He'd have none of it though, which indicated to me that his activism was more of a social/spiritual thing, you know..that whole underground, subversive sthick and led me to question that if environmentalists are only willing to make minor or no adjustments to their lifestyles..then why should I listen to, or follow their words ?
Sometimes it's hard to view environmentalism as nothing more than a self serving wank
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Stout - I would be classified as an environmentalist I think, as I work for Greenpeace.
However, I also make numerous lifestyle changes that stick by my morals, including being a very cautious consumer and making large sacrifices in comfort/convenience/cost in order to live in a way that is fitting for my outlook.
PM me if you want the ins and outs - though I reckon you can all imagine well enough what I mean.
At the end of the day, there are going to be lazy, short-sighted people within every occupation (environmentalists included) who refuse to take responsibility for any of their negative impacts, choosing instead to focus on the obviously positive ones. That's just the way it is. I think we are all personally guilty of the same.
Pele - I am suprised that you have ignored my previous post?!
Stout - I would be classified as an environmentalist I think, as I work for Greenpeace.
However, I also make numerous lifestyle changes that stick by my morals, including being a very cautious consumer and making large sacrifices in comfort/convenience/cost in order to live in a way that is fitting for my outlook.
PM me if you want the ins and outs - though I reckon you can all imagine well enough what I mean.
At the end of the day, there are going to be lazy, short-sighted people within every occupation (environmentalists included) who refuse to take responsibility for any of their negative impacts, choosing instead to focus on the obviously positive ones. That's just the way it is. I think we are all personally guilty of the same.
Pele - I am suprised that you have ignored my previous post?!
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
fnf...it's those lifestyle changes and sticking by the morals that truly classify you as an environmentalist, the fact that you work for Greenpeace is an added bonus. Judging by your comment about talking to hundreds of people a day, am I safe to assume that you're a paid canvasser ? This is one Greenpeace program I wholeheartedly support, and I bought several memberships last year, and will do the same again this year.
The environmental movement needs more people like you..more people to not only acknowledge that certain lifestyle adjustments need to be talked about, but also lived. I'm not talking about the phony ones, like only buying used clothing so one can complain about sweatshop labour and global shipping, but ones that actually make a difference like not owning a car.
sometimes I wonder if I'm too much of a realist. I suppose I could trumpet the lifestyle choices I've made as being environmentally motivated, which in some part, they are, but I'm acting more out of self interest than anything else. I only drive when I have to because I really don't like driving, I don't own lots o' crap, and when I do buy things I buy quality in the hopes that those things will last, simply because I hate shopping for stuff.
My current greenness is more of an added bonus at this stage of my life..but I did learn lots of the facts when I was an idealist and my appreciation of irony has led me to make the judgements about the "inconsistencies" in the environmental movement that I make today.
Still no word on the origins of "the pear" yet.
fnf...it's those lifestyle changes and sticking by the morals that truly classify you as an environmentalist, the fact that you work for Greenpeace is an added bonus. Judging by your comment about talking to hundreds of people a day, am I safe to assume that you're a paid canvasser ? This is one Greenpeace program I wholeheartedly support, and I bought several memberships last year, and will do the same again this year.
The environmental movement needs more people like you..more people to not only acknowledge that certain lifestyle adjustments need to be talked about, but also lived. I'm not talking about the phony ones, like only buying used clothing so one can complain about sweatshop labour and global shipping, but ones that actually make a difference like not owning a car.
sometimes I wonder if I'm too much of a realist. I suppose I could trumpet the lifestyle choices I've made as being environmentally motivated, which in some part, they are, but I'm acting more out of self interest than anything else. I only drive when I have to because I really don't like driving, I don't own lots o' crap, and when I do buy things I buy quality in the hopes that those things will last, simply because I hate shopping for stuff.
My current greenness is more of an added bonus at this stage of my life..but I did learn lots of the facts when I was an idealist and my appreciation of irony has led me to make the judgements about the "inconsistencies" in the environmental movement that I make today.
Still no word on the origins of "the pear" yet.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think you're right to emphasise to people that your committment to greeness is not a slog/sacrifice/deprivation.
I feel much the same- I could dwell on the problems that not having a car entails when making a living in a business that traditionally necessitates a vehicle.
The fact that I have to often rely on the UKs unreliable public transport system etc, etc.
But I suspect that the pros of not having a car, at least are equal to the cons-
non car insurance, fuel bills, having to fix/maintain or pay someone to fix/maintain, the fact that my outgoings as a result are lower, no concern about the rsponsibility of being in charge of a potentially lethal device...etc, etc.
The side benfits include the fact that, out of necessity, I've had to cultivate a different client base than many of those making a living from circus skills the trad way (ie a big van, shows/performances anywhere in the country, topped up by the odd workshop).
Personally, I find working with schools/community groups on a local level (with the necessity of building trust and personalising what I offer to accord with their aims) far more interesting than driving up to cardiff to put on a (often cliched) act for a corporate event.
That's just me by the way, I'm not running down those who do enjoy and make a living in the more trad way- another reason I did take a different path is that I couldn't do what they do, I simply don't have that skillset.
What I am saying though, is that, for the vast majority of green lifestyle choices I live by, there is no deprivation- I feel the positives way more than the negatives.
And, to get to the point, when it comes to the issue of the general public adapting their lifestyles to a greener type, that this is perhaps the most powerful message (or 'selling-point') there could be: -
making green choices = a better life for you.
Imagine how different the world would be like if the majority of humans believed that!
Don't hold your breathe mate, I'm waiting for something similar on the 'plants are conscious/vegetarian thread
Written by: Stout
........I could trumpet the lifestyle choices I've made as being environmentally motivated, which in some part, they are, but I'm acting more out of self interest than anything else. I only drive when I have to because I really don't like driving, I don't own lots o' crap, and when I do buy things I buy quality in the hopes that those things will last, simply because I hate shopping for stuff.
I think you're right to emphasise to people that your committment to greeness is not a slog/sacrifice/deprivation.
I feel much the same- I could dwell on the problems that not having a car entails when making a living in a business that traditionally necessitates a vehicle.
The fact that I have to often rely on the UKs unreliable public transport system etc, etc.
But I suspect that the pros of not having a car, at least are equal to the cons-
non car insurance, fuel bills, having to fix/maintain or pay someone to fix/maintain, the fact that my outgoings as a result are lower, no concern about the rsponsibility of being in charge of a potentially lethal device...etc, etc.
The side benfits include the fact that, out of necessity, I've had to cultivate a different client base than many of those making a living from circus skills the trad way (ie a big van, shows/performances anywhere in the country, topped up by the odd workshop).
Personally, I find working with schools/community groups on a local level (with the necessity of building trust and personalising what I offer to accord with their aims) far more interesting than driving up to cardiff to put on a (often cliched) act for a corporate event.
That's just me by the way, I'm not running down those who do enjoy and make a living in the more trad way- another reason I did take a different path is that I couldn't do what they do, I simply don't have that skillset.
What I am saying though, is that, for the vast majority of green lifestyle choices I live by, there is no deprivation- I feel the positives way more than the negatives.
And, to get to the point, when it comes to the issue of the general public adapting their lifestyles to a greener type, that this is perhaps the most powerful message (or 'selling-point') there could be: -
making green choices = a better life for you.
Imagine how different the world would be like if the majority of humans believed that!
Written by: Stout
Still no word on the origins of "the pear" yet.
Don't hold your breathe mate, I'm waiting for something similar on the 'plants are conscious/vegetarian thread
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I think if you choose what you buy and how you live you *are* sending a clear message to industry, which is what I (believe I) said earlier.
Fact is, when you see the people who start and/or head up environmental industries turn their backs on it or act in a hypocritical way, and not listen to those who point it out, then you know regular industry won't either. Therefore the strongest statements we can make are in our personal choices and lives, in my opinion, which is already what this thread discusses.
I think the personal sphere of influence is the strongest speaking one and quite honestly, don't understand what you are taking objection to.
If it is about the personal and the people, and I am asking people what personal choices they have made...then it answers your question.
Therefore, I feel that carrying on in this vein is both redundant and inviting arguement over who should picket what. (and I didn't ignore it, I didn't see it as when I returned I went to page two thinking I read page one fully.)
Written by: fluffy napalm fairy
Erm - it is people who make up industries, governments and big businesses. It is the action of individual people on a personal level that affect the way that other people act. It is our personal choice as to whether we stand up for what we wish to achieve, or whether we chose not to.
I think you get my drift.
You cannot seperate the two.
Sure, I don't want do discuss the policies of massive corporations, the ins and outs of politics and the global impacts of major industries, cos that's not what this thread is about.
I am asking simply what we personally are doing to guide these things that are outside or our immediate 'recycling' sphere of influence.
I think if you choose what you buy and how you live you *are* sending a clear message to industry, which is what I (believe I) said earlier.
Fact is, when you see the people who start and/or head up environmental industries turn their backs on it or act in a hypocritical way, and not listen to those who point it out, then you know regular industry won't either. Therefore the strongest statements we can make are in our personal choices and lives, in my opinion, which is already what this thread discusses.
I think the personal sphere of influence is the strongest speaking one and quite honestly, don't understand what you are taking objection to.
If it is about the personal and the people, and I am asking people what personal choices they have made...then it answers your question.
Therefore, I feel that carrying on in this vein is both redundant and inviting arguement over who should picket what. (and I didn't ignore it, I didn't see it as when I returned I went to page two thinking I read page one fully.)
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
eeep! not everything has to be an arguement
!!!
I certainly don't want one either. I was merely asking a little more about our influences as you seemed to think that my question was no longer about personal stuff, and I feel that the two (personal and commercial/political) are inextricably entangled.
This is the sort of idea i was seeking to uncover. If you think you'd said it already I'm sorry - I didn't see it anywhere - and I was just trying to clarify. Does everyone who has posted here feel the same - that their immediate worls is the most significant?
And I have taken objection to nowt.
Except your tone, if I'm honest, because I was being nice and not provcative and entering into the discussion on the grounds that you set out in the first post.
eeep! not everything has to be an arguement
!!!I certainly don't want one either. I was merely asking a little more about our influences as you seemed to think that my question was no longer about personal stuff, and I feel that the two (personal and commercial/political) are inextricably entangled.
Written by: pele
I think the personal sphere of influence is the strongest speaking one and quite honestly, don't understand what you are taking objection to.
This is the sort of idea i was seeking to uncover. If you think you'd said it already I'm sorry - I didn't see it anywhere - and I was just trying to clarify. Does everyone who has posted here feel the same - that their immediate worls is the most significant?
And I have taken objection to nowt.
Except your tone, if I'm honest, because I was being nice and not provcative and entering into the discussion on the grounds that you set out in the first post.
Geologists do it in the dirt................
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
As far as I can tell, we're all on the same page here with acknowledging that it's our own personal lifestyle choices that ultimately influence how the corporate sector will react to our demands as consumers. This does stand out in contrast to the "typical" activist view that we're all victims of the corporate agenda, ie they advertise it so we buy it because "they told us to" ..the fashion industry being the best example of this I can think of.
General Motors may tell me that I need a new Escalade in order to make my life complete, but I refuse to fall "victim" and go out and buy one because common sense tells me that if I don't buy one, there'll be one less gas guzzling SUV rolling off the production line.
What do you suppose would happen if me, and a million of my buddies demanded the return of the EV1 ? ( Who Killed the Electric Car ) Do you suppose the market would react ?
As far as I can tell, we're all on the same page here with acknowledging that it's our own personal lifestyle choices that ultimately influence how the corporate sector will react to our demands as consumers. This does stand out in contrast to the "typical" activist view that we're all victims of the corporate agenda, ie they advertise it so we buy it because "they told us to" ..the fashion industry being the best example of this I can think of.
General Motors may tell me that I need a new Escalade in order to make my life complete, but I refuse to fall "victim" and go out and buy one because common sense tells me that if I don't buy one, there'll be one less gas guzzling SUV rolling off the production line.
What do you suppose would happen if me, and a million of my buddies demanded the return of the EV1 ? ( Who Killed the Electric Car ) Do you suppose the market would react ?
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
now looking at myself...
I stopped buying gemstones and gave up my profession as a jeweller (whereas economic reasons might make me getting out all the stones I bought already and turn them into stuff I can sell),
same applied to my Didgeridoo making career,
I do spin with fire only when necessary (few criterias apply),
I do plant trees (seeds) whenever I get the chance and
refrain from overindulging meat.
I prefer a motorbike WAY over a car and am looking forward
to fly and spend my winter in the south (rather than using all the fossil fuels for heating) and
try to stay away from TukTuks in said southern regions as much as possible.....
I try to be gentle to my environment and refuse to throw the butts and other trash into the area and I am looking forward to do more of my duty in raising awareness...
How's that? 
I know, it's ridiculous and really not changing anything on any scale bigger than... *sigh* well.......
now looking at myself... I stopped buying gemstones and gave up my profession as a jeweller (whereas economic reasons might make me getting out all the stones I bought already and turn them into stuff I can sell),
same applied to my Didgeridoo making career,
I do spin with fire only when necessary (few criterias apply),
I do plant trees (seeds) whenever I get the chance and
refrain from overindulging meat.
I prefer a motorbike WAY over a car and am looking forward
to fly and spend my winter in the south (rather than using all the fossil fuels for heating) and
try to stay away from TukTuks in said southern regions as much as possible.....
I try to be gentle to my environment and refuse to throw the butts and other trash into the area and I am looking forward to do more of my duty in raising awareness...
How's that? I know, it's ridiculous and really not changing anything on any scale bigger than... *sigh* well....... the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Tom..that's an interesting idea about flying south to save on the energy required to heat a house in the winter. I, personally can't use that one because I'm on hydroelectric power with electric heat so I'm not burning fossil fuels to stay warm in the winter, but if you do the math, does it work out from an environmental perspective in Germany ?
I once met retired Italian couple in Thailand who used the financial cost of heating their home in Venice as a reason to fly south and rent a house for the winter. These guys claimed that the cost of heating their Venetian home equalled the cost of the both of them flying to Thailand, and the other monies saved, like not having to buy food in Venice, covered their house rental and food purchases in Thailand.
Tom..that's an interesting idea about flying south to save on the energy required to heat a house in the winter. I, personally can't use that one because I'm on hydroelectric power with electric heat so I'm not burning fossil fuels to stay warm in the winter, but if you do the math, does it work out from an environmental perspective in Germany ?
I once met retired Italian couple in Thailand who used the financial cost of heating their home in Venice as a reason to fly south and rent a house for the winter. These guys claimed that the cost of heating their Venetian home equalled the cost of the both of them flying to Thailand, and the other monies saved, like not having to buy food in Venice, covered their house rental and food purchases in Thailand.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
I would guess that I need more fossil fuel to keep me warm in European winter than it does cost to bring me down here. Food not included, because this would then be mainly pointing at personal, exconomical reasons (whereas the food needs not to be heated as much in order to cook (from 36 Celsius vs. from 7 Celsius))
Electric heating? Isn't that even less efficient than burning fossil fuels?
I would guess that I need more fossil fuel to keep me warm in European winter than it does cost to bring me down here. Food not included, because this would then be mainly pointing at personal, exconomical reasons (whereas the food needs not to be heated as much in order to cook (from 36 Celsius vs. from 7 Celsius))
Electric heating? Isn't that even less efficient than burning fossil fuels?
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Fair enough..it's a tough call to make due to the myriad of factors that come into play when making such a comparison, like how much of you energy comes from burning fossil fuels, how much area are you heating, how well insulated your place is, how many air miles flown....yada yada.
How efficient is electric heating when compared to burning fossil fuels ? I dunno, I haven't, but will check into it. Due to building codes ( pertaining to fire ) I really don't have much of an option for heating other than electric, except maybe using those portable kerosene heaters, but regardless, as it stands today, my electricity usage is generating very little C02, and the majority of the environmental damage was done 40 years ago.( dam construction, flooding valleys )
Fair enough..it's a tough call to make due to the myriad of factors that come into play when making such a comparison, like how much of you energy comes from burning fossil fuels, how much area are you heating, how well insulated your place is, how many air miles flown....yada yada.
How efficient is electric heating when compared to burning fossil fuels ? I dunno, I haven't, but will check into it. Due to building codes ( pertaining to fire ) I really don't have much of an option for heating other than electric, except maybe using those portable kerosene heaters, but regardless, as it stands today, my electricity usage is generating very little C02, and the majority of the environmental damage was done 40 years ago.( dam construction, flooding valleys )
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
hmmmmmmm, valid I guess. Yet is it that ALL your electricity comes from that particular dam alone? I just know that (in Germany) electric heating is just THE most expensive (not speaking of environmental impact here) method of heating...
building codes suck big time.... sometimes... as does the predicament in Europe... YAY to climate change?
"never give toooo much upon a smile, but always return it"
hmmmmmmm, valid I guess. Yet is it that ALL your electricity comes from that particular dam alone?
I just know that (in Germany) electric heating is just THE most expensive (not speaking of environmental impact here) method of heating...building codes suck big time.... sometimes... as does the predicament in Europe... YAY to climate change?
"never give toooo much upon a smile, but always return it"
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
We actually have several dams, and every time the power company tries to build a fossil fuel burning electric plant, we as a society always shout them down. Sure there's a few around, but they're more for "emergency purposes" like a sudden cold snap than everyday use.
Mind you, if you saw how little we actually pay for electricity around here, you'd probably be sick. In Germany you pay up to 5 times what we do per KWH.
We actually have several dams, and every time the power company tries to build a fossil fuel burning electric plant, we as a society always shout them down. Sure there's a few around, but they're more for "emergency purposes" like a sudden cold snap than everyday use.
Mind you, if you saw how little we actually pay for electricity around here, you'd probably be sick. In Germany you pay up to 5 times what we do per KWH.
SILVER Member
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
veteran
1,228 posts
Location: on the wrong planet, United Kingdom
Posted:
****-off big piggy bank.
****-off big piggy bank.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.
Green peppers, lime pickle and whole-grain mustard = best sandwich filling.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Um, just thought I'd post with what I (and my house) do. We can't really do all that much as we are three students living in a rental house, but there are little things that we do, as well as do anyway to save money.
We have a shower-over-bath, so when we shower, we put the plug in and collect the water so we can then use it on the garden.
A "no junk mail sign" (or rather, we did. it needs replacing which I will get onto as soon as I buy some more ink for the printer)
I read the newspaper online, or those free ones on the train, or just at cafes where they're put on the table.
We have been sleeping with the doors and windows open to keep the house cool, rather than using fans and air conditioners. Similarly, just close curtains and doors during the day.
Blankets and heat packs in winter.
Household cleaners that are more environmentally friendly. Recycled paper toilet paper too.
I don't drive. I don't even have my license. I take public transport, walk, cycle or get a lift with someone else (thereby maximising car capacity)
My parents use the washing machine water on the garden.
We *had* our own herb garden, til I went to Japan and Kathryn went to Tassie and Ben didn't water it...but we hope to reinstate it and maybe some veggies too.
We try to inform each other if we aren't coming home at night so that the outside light doesnt get left on all night.
Canvas bags when we go to the supermarket. At the bakery, I always ask for a paper bag and not a plastic one.
And we recycle as per the usual neighbourhood recycling.
There are other things I do as well, but they're more "saving the local economy" rather than the planet, like buying my fruit and veg from the green grocer.
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1172019193)
Um, just thought I'd post with what I (and my house) do. We can't really do all that much as we are three students living in a rental house, but there are little things that we do, as well as do anyway to save money.
We have a shower-over-bath, so when we shower, we put the plug in and collect the water so we can then use it on the garden.
A "no junk mail sign" (or rather, we did. it needs replacing which I will get onto as soon as I buy some more ink for the printer)
I read the newspaper online, or those free ones on the train, or just at cafes where they're put on the table.
We have been sleeping with the doors and windows open to keep the house cool, rather than using fans and air conditioners. Similarly, just close curtains and doors during the day.
Blankets and heat packs in winter.
Household cleaners that are more environmentally friendly. Recycled paper toilet paper too.
I don't drive. I don't even have my license. I take public transport, walk, cycle or get a lift with someone else (thereby maximising car capacity)
My parents use the washing machine water on the garden.
We *had* our own herb garden, til I went to Japan and Kathryn went to Tassie and Ben didn't water it...but we hope to reinstate it and maybe some veggies too.
We try to inform each other if we aren't coming home at night so that the outside light doesnt get left on all night.
Canvas bags when we go to the supermarket. At the bakery, I always ask for a paper bag and not a plastic one.
And we recycle as per the usual neighbourhood recycling.
There are other things I do as well, but they're more "saving the local economy" rather than the planet, like buying my fruit and veg from the green grocer.
EDITED_BY: Rouge Dragon (1172019193)
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
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