Forums > Social Discussion > UK Daily Mail Journalist attacks paganism and Druidry
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
This post is about religious freedom.
I don't know if you've heard lately, but Druidry is now a recognised religion in the uk. Well, One Daily Mail Journalist Melanie Philips seems to have got her knickers in a twist about this. And of course, the Mail let her print her uneducated views, and she's made a lot of people very angry at her ill informed views.
It was HoP's own Sunbird who found the article, and wrote this post on facebook, evidently angered.
The link to the original article and a link to a petition for a full apology is there on the note too.
Please please read. This is about religious tolerance, and freedom.
At this current time (22:14 London Time) we have over 700 signatures in just 3 hours. Freedom of speech is great, but when you use that freedom to attack and belittle someone's beliefs, then that is unacceptable. Especially for a journalist.
......
My email to the Daily Mail RE Melanie Philips article
by James Carrington on Monday, 04 October 2010 at 19:25
Today I found an article in the Daily mail which was a complete and utter predjudiced attack, ill informed and abusive against my faith. I decided to call the Daily Mail and was put through to the Editor's office. The lady I spoke to asked me to email my concerns to her. The article can be found here:
I have started a petition for a full and public apology from Melanie Philips. PLEASE sign it: In one week I will present it to the Daily Mail https://www.petitiononline.com/druid1/petition.html
*EDITED*
We cannot share this email as it will harm our chances in the investigation launched by the press complaints commission today. Wish us luck
.......
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=159153554104560&id=100001026093575
Thank you,
Tink
This post is about religious freedom.
I don't know if you've heard lately, but Druidry is now a recognised religion in the uk. Well, One Daily Mail Journalist Melanie Philips seems to have got her knickers in a twist about this. And of course, the Mail let her print her uneducated views, and she's made a lot of people very angry at her ill informed views.
It was HoP's own Sunbird who found the article, and wrote this post on facebook, evidently angered.
The link to the original article and a link to a petition for a full apology is there on the note too.
Please please read. This is about religious tolerance, and freedom.
At this current time (22:14 London Time) we have over 700 signatures in just 3 hours. Freedom of speech is great, but when you use that freedom to attack and belittle someone's beliefs, then that is unacceptable. Especially for a journalist.
......
My email to the Daily Mail RE Melanie Philips article
by James Carrington on Monday, 04 October 2010 at 19:25
Today I found an article in the Daily mail which was a complete and utter predjudiced attack, ill informed and abusive against my faith. I decided to call the Daily Mail and was put through to the Editor's office. The lady I spoke to asked me to email my concerns to her. The article can be found here:
I have started a petition for a full and public apology from Melanie Philips. PLEASE sign it: In one week I will present it to the Daily Mail https://www.petitiononline.com/druid1/petition.html
*EDITED*
We cannot share this email as it will harm our chances in the investigation launched by the press complaints commission today. Wish us luck
.......
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=159153554104560&id=100001026093575
Thank you,
Tink
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
I won't poke at you because your family and I like you and you know what I'm Like so please don't take this to heart or personally *hug*
but looking at this article is it any different to any of the work done by Richard Dawkins to belittle and undermine major faiths, like christianity or islam? (although his arguments are far more concise and I admit aim to cut deep)
It's a reporters effort to create a stir by belittling a faith, the fact that they picked a smaller one like paganism is neither here nor there except that it is the belief you follow. This has been happening to other religions for ages now.
To have freedom of religious expression means you have to allow the freedom to express the negative as well as the positive otherwise what you have is NOT freedom of expression / speech or religion. What you have is the freedom to spout religious dogma or belief with no control or allowance for anyone to say "No this is wrong" what you are asking for is for YOUR religion to be protected from negative comments as you see them as wrong or unfair.
Yes their facts may have been incorrect (for which I think you SHOULD get an apology, false reporting is wrong on any level) but you can't complain about someone thinking your beliefs are a joke or wrong or even publishing that they think so. Otherwise you are protecting faith over non-faith which would be unfair.
It looks like a christian attack on paganism from what I've read, another example of the religious meme's self defense mechanism. I think the article is wrong because it trys to elevate "major" religions over paganism which is absurd, but is it any different to everybody denouncing any faith because of a few bad stories?
Plus it's the daily mail, they couldn't research their way out of a lift.
Unfortunately following a faith means you occassionally have to read these articles belittling your beliefs, and honestly I can't see things getting any better.
I won't poke at you because your family and I like you and you know what I'm Like so please don't take this to heart or personally *hug*
but looking at this article is it any different to any of the work done by Richard Dawkins to belittle and undermine major faiths, like christianity or islam? (although his arguments are far more concise and I admit aim to cut deep)
It's a reporters effort to create a stir by belittling a faith, the fact that they picked a smaller one like paganism is neither here nor there except that it is the belief you follow. This has been happening to other religions for ages now.
To have freedom of religious expression means you have to allow the freedom to express the negative as well as the positive otherwise what you have is NOT freedom of expression / speech or religion. What you have is the freedom to spout religious dogma or belief with no control or allowance for anyone to say "No this is wrong" what you are asking for is for YOUR religion to be protected from negative comments as you see them as wrong or unfair.
Yes their facts may have been incorrect (for which I think you SHOULD get an apology, false reporting is wrong on any level) but you can't complain about someone thinking your beliefs are a joke or wrong or even publishing that they think so. Otherwise you are protecting faith over non-faith which would be unfair.
It looks like a christian attack on paganism from what I've read, another example of the religious meme's self defense mechanism. I think the article is wrong because it trys to elevate "major" religions over paganism which is absurd, but is it any different to everybody denouncing any faith because of a few bad stories?
Plus it's the daily mail, they couldn't research their way out of a lift.
Unfortunately following a faith means you occassionally have to read these articles belittling your beliefs, and honestly I can't see things getting any better.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Think how I feel when I see articles demeaning atheists to be the same as hitler, or how we can't have morals without religion. I get frustrated but realise that the person speaking is a retard.
I have to say though the person who wrote that is obviously a few balls short of a full cascade and less informed than ME and you know how much I care about faiths. picking on pagans is like picking on bhuddists, essentially pointless.
's to you both - (you should have known I'd pipe up on a religion topic)
EDITED_BY: Mynci (1286282611)
Think how I feel when I see articles demeaning atheists to be the same as hitler, or how we can't have morals without religion. I get frustrated but realise that the person speaking is a retard.
I have to say though the person who wrote that is obviously a few balls short of a full cascade and less informed than ME and you know how much I care about faiths. picking on pagans is like picking on bhuddists, essentially pointless.
's to you both - (you should have known I'd pipe up on a religion topic)EDITED_BY: Mynci (1286282611)
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,588 posts
Location: United Kingdom
veteran
1,588 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Aaaah! The Daily FAIL once again letting local mental patients play "typey type" with the office equipment!
Aaaah! The Daily FAIL once again letting local mental patients play "typey type" with the office equipment!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
You're giving this too much of a platform.
Media is to cause a stir and make people buy it. You buy and wear a shoe that doesn't fit - but I really admire you for your enthusiasm ( )
You want to do something about it? Write an article or letter back, contact radio stations for an interview...
My suspicion: you won't get an apology from her, no matter what (unless by court order)... "some people you just can't reach"
You're giving this too much of a platform.
Media is to cause a stir and make people buy it. You buy and wear a shoe that doesn't fit - but I really admire you for your enthusiasm (
) You want to do something about it? Write an article or letter back, contact radio stations for an interview...
My suspicion: you won't get an apology from her, no matter what (unless by court order)... "some people you just can't reach"
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
we have close to 2600 signatures on our petition now. Sunbird will be presenting the petition to the executive managing editor of the Daily Mail, Robin Esser this Monday. Not just Pagans, people of all faiths have signed it.
Paganism is hardly a minority religion, it's an umbrella term for all polytheistic beliefs. That includes tribal people's beliefs too.
Mynci She can think what she likes, and write it on her own personal blog, and stop using a national newspaper as one.
ok let me quote some key paragraphs for people who are too lazy to actually read it.
"... And without the Judeo-Christian heritage there would be no morality and no true human rights."
Sorry to all Hindus, humanists, Pagans and Buddhists, etc, Melanie Philips seems to think none of "your Kind" can't have morals or respect "true" human rights. So anyone who's faith is not judeo-christian based, with a Supreme Being governing the entire universe, your religion is not a religion.
"...If the Druids qualify as a religion, can other cults such as the Scientologists be far behind? ".... erm, actually it is. (who didn't google, eh?) one word, wikipedia. Scientology, created and declared a religion in 1952 by Ron Hubbard, later being officially declared a religion, with some arguements about tax, but at this moment in time, it's an official religion.
"....In part, it developed from the New Age embrace of Eastern beliefs in the inter-connectedness of everything in the universe." no, Love, it's evolved from Celtic shamanism. New age Beliefs come from Eastern and Western ideals.
"... The defining characteristic of such faiths is a spirituality which is concerned with the self rather than the world beyond the individual..." elsewhere she states we worship what's on / in the earth only. Erm no, we honor the gods and spiritual beings too.
The only religions I know that focuses on the self, are scientology (derived in part from psychology- past life regression etc) and Satanism, in which you're allowed to do anything you can to get something you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone.)
"...There is nothing remotely enlightened about paganism. It was historically tied up with both communism and fascism" Erm, really? seriously? can you back that up with facts that you haven't made up, Love?
The Article is full of inaccuracies, without any information backing up what she writes, only using a quote she clearly thinks is mumbo jumbo, Which she later expresses.
What's more bewildering, is all this intolerance she has for non monotheistic religions is coming from a Jewish woman, who's own faith of course incurred the holocaust last century.
The bottom line is that journalist's job is to provide unbiased facts to the reader.
As a writer myself, this was a horrendously conceived piece of work. She clearly has not researched the subject. I see no references to where she got her info from, only her right winged ideal of what a "true religion" is. It's a written tantrum.
we have close to 2600 signatures on our petition now. Sunbird will be presenting the petition to the executive managing editor of the Daily Mail, Robin Esser this Monday. Not just Pagans, people of all faiths have signed it.
Paganism is hardly a minority religion, it's an umbrella term for all polytheistic beliefs. That includes tribal people's beliefs too.
Mynci She can think what she likes, and write it on her own personal blog, and stop using a national newspaper as one.
ok let me quote some key paragraphs for people who are too lazy to actually read it.
"... And without the Judeo-Christian heritage there would be no morality and no true human rights."
Sorry to all Hindus, humanists, Pagans and Buddhists, etc, Melanie Philips seems to think none of "your Kind" can't have morals or respect "true" human rights. So anyone who's faith is not judeo-christian based, with a Supreme Being governing the entire universe, your religion is not a religion.
"...If the Druids qualify as a religion, can other cults such as the Scientologists be far behind? ".... erm, actually it is. (who didn't google, eh?) one word, wikipedia. Scientology, created and declared a religion in 1952 by Ron Hubbard, later being officially declared a religion, with some arguements about tax, but at this moment in time, it's an official religion.
"....In part, it developed from the New Age embrace of Eastern beliefs in the inter-connectedness of everything in the universe." no, Love, it's evolved from Celtic shamanism. New age Beliefs come from Eastern and Western ideals.
"... The defining characteristic of such faiths is a spirituality which is concerned with the self rather than the world beyond the individual..." elsewhere she states we worship what's on / in the earth only. Erm no, we honor the gods and spiritual beings too.
The only religions I know that focuses on the self, are scientology (derived in part from psychology- past life regression etc) and Satanism, in which you're allowed to do anything you can to get something you want, as long as you don't hurt anyone.)
"...There is nothing remotely enlightened about paganism. It was historically tied up with both communism and fascism" Erm, really? seriously? can you back that up with facts that you haven't made up, Love?
The Article is full of inaccuracies, without any information backing up what she writes, only using a quote she clearly thinks is mumbo jumbo, Which she later expresses.
What's more bewildering, is all this intolerance she has for non monotheistic religions is coming from a Jewish woman, who's own faith of course incurred the holocaust last century.
The bottom line is that journalist's job is to provide unbiased facts to the reader.
As a writer myself, this was a horrendously conceived piece of work. She clearly has not researched the subject. I see no references to where she got her info from, only her right winged ideal of what a "true religion" is. It's a written tantrum.
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Tabloid journalism is what gives the rest of journalism a bad name.
Tabloid journalism is what gives the rest of journalism a bad name.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
I'm not going to really do anything other than attempt to understand the issue. I'm a firm believer in The Separation of Church and State being upheld so I would want the opposite of what the Druids in your country are advocating, I believe no special tax status or exemption should be given on the basis or religion or lack there of by my government and I am a Buddhist.
Why do you want a demanded apology that is most likely in sincere to be issued publicly and why do you want to be officially recognized in a faith that is very individualistic in terms of practice? I don't see the advantage to either at first glance, what the journalist said is pretty "wackadoodle out there" IMO but I feel she hurt herself and her employers by publishing something that ridiculous and ignorant.
Don't you think she punished herself in the eyes of any reasonably educated individual?
I'm not going to really do anything other than attempt to understand the issue. I'm a firm believer in The Separation of Church and State being upheld so I would want the opposite of what the Druids in your country are advocating, I believe no special tax status or exemption should be given on the basis or religion or lack there of by my government and I am a Buddhist.
Why do you want a demanded apology that is most likely in sincere to be issued publicly and why do you want to be officially recognized in a faith that is very individualistic in terms of practice? I don't see the advantage to either at first glance, what the journalist said is pretty "wackadoodle out there" IMO but I feel she hurt herself and her employers by publishing something that ridiculous and ignorant.
Don't you think she punished herself in the eyes of any reasonably educated individual?
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
She is also probably equating it to Wicca which I personally know there is a big difference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
She is also probably equating it to Wicca which I personally know there is a big difference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
I just find it funny that people that subscribe to one set of unreasoned belief always want to attack those of other unreasoned belifs.
Those of us who subscribe to reason as a method for undertsanding the world around us (athiest, agnostic, humanist...) only really attack things that effect wider society (and any religion being given charitable status falls into that category for me) or is genuinely unjust (the current Pope is an accessory to 10's of 000's of crimes yet walks free).
I just find it funny that people that subscribe to one set of unreasoned belief always want to attack those of other unreasoned belifs.
Those of us who subscribe to reason as a method for undertsanding the world around us (athiest, agnostic, humanist...) only really attack things that effect wider society (and any religion being given charitable status falls into that category for me) or is genuinely unjust (the current Pope is an accessory to 10's of 000's of crimes yet walks free).
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