Forums > Technical Discussion > Fire clubs and deadline looming...

Posted: 29th Jan 2002
Good luck Charles You can do it.

Posted: 29th Jan 2002
Charles man! that's daring! it took me 40 years to learn to club juggle! you're pretty lucky to have that much ambition AND an agent.If you're looking for a tip for refining club technique, try it over a bed so that you don't lose your 'rhythm' and also try swooping the clubs from the sides to the 'middle' point as consistently as possible. That lays the ground work for fancy tricks like the "Oh-my-god-stop-drop-n-roll-now!"If you're looking for tips for *fire* juggling um, can't help ya.hope dis helps! :/------------------"He shall know your ways as if born to them"-Fremen prophecy

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Posted: 29th Jan 2002
Bender, the reason I'm not that good at clubs is that I'm not that good ata clubs...I.E. I get annoyed with myself and go and practice something else. I can juggle three clubs for a minute or so, without much chance of dropping, but fireclubs are a whole new kettle of boiling fish!Thanks for the tips though...it all makes a difference...PS - My ambition stems from my marriage in April - I need the money! And I have several agents, although I'm not directly contracted to any of them.This particular agent is the nicest and most organised of all of them, so I would hate disappoint them.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 30 January 2002).]

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Posted: 30th Jan 2002
Is the problem mental (ie because you have to catch fire)? Or is it because in the dark it is hard to see the handles?If it is the first then you just gotta not care.If it is the second then how about putting some kinda of small glow bit on the end of the handle (even if just a bit of glow stick juice).If it is the third, then I don't know the third and as such: buh-nuh-nuh?!

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Posted: 30th Jan 2002
What you need to do is to learn to juggle clubs PROPERLY before doing anything like fire - especially for performances!!!Practicing over the bed is a good tip so you dont have to bend too far, but it may hinder your throwing of the clubs as the butt (far end) of the club may catch on the bed.I know this may seem like taking you back to basics, but with club juggling its all about the throw technique to ensure a good smooth even pattern.Ill use right hand. Imagine you have a line that runs down the centre of your body through your belly button.With one club, hold it halfway along the handle and move the right arm from pointing straight out (90deg) from body to approx 45 deg outwards (to the right)Like this: _/ Not this: _|Next is the throw. Move the right hand in toward the mid line and 'scoop' the air with the butt of the club. As your right hand reaches the mid line (belly button) it realeases and throws the club with a single spin to finish up at 45 deg to the left.YOu know how to juggle already so I wont bore you with the rest but its all about the throw. use your arms to throw - i tend to do all the 'scooping' from the elbow. Really get that scoop motion going and you'll find it almost 'places' the club at just the right angle into the ready and waiting left hand.Practise it well and youll end up with a good solid pattern thats fairly wide and often low enough after a while that no club will come above eye level. Practice higher to start with.As for fire, get a good solid club juggle going first, and use your fire stix unlit till youget the 'feel' of them and THEN try lighting them and you'll see the improvement. Also do the first couple of burns in daylight, then start at a light dusk to acclimatise to the light and practice as it gets darker.White handles are better than silver gold or metallic ones. They simply 'dissapear' at night but white stand out.I know its back to basics but its been tried and tested with myself and many of my friends from juggling club. I hope it helps.Gruff

Posted: 30th Jan 2002
Bendy, after practicing and catching the wrong end a couple of times, it's defintely no the fear of fire. The wicks on fire clubs are tiny compared to those on my staff.The biggest issue is both not being able to see the handles, combined with being dazzled by the flame being so close. The dazzling also makes it hard for me to judge where the end of the handle is. I tend to be catching the handle anywhere from the middle to the end, rather than consistently in one place.Thanks for the tips Gruff.I've actually been out there the last two nights and have got up to 45 throws (when i remember to count) with lit clubs. Obviously that is the exception (I.E. I'm dropping them lots otherwise) but I'll continue to work on both the daytime and the nighttime juggling. Fortunately, I have some cheap fire clubs that I've never used which I am practicing with, so I can use Kero instead of pegasol, and I use Malcolm's unlit ones to practice unlit (so i can practrice inside, or as Gruff says, over the bed).I didn't think I'd be up to 45 throws this soon, now I need to work on the consistencey.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

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Posted: 31st Jan 2002
CharlesMake a lot of dropsTheory:there is only a finite number of drops that you could every make in your life even if you club jug till your 80, therefore, if you make lots and lots of drops in practice, there are less left for you to make in performance. easyglass

Posted: 31st Jan 2002
Charles,Dont worry about not being able to see the handles. Sometimes it helps but if you practise plenty plenty plenty and really get that scoop action going - you will be putting the clubs in exactly the right place for the next hand to pick up. ie from 45 deg right to approx 45 deg left. This means that you should be able to look 'through' the pattern at your audience and get good eye contact rather than looking at or concentrating on each club thrown.This also means that you will eventually be able to juggle completely blindfolded cos you know the exact placement of the clubs so seeing the handles is not important, but for learning maybe it is so. (my finale to my street show is to juggle knives, blindfolded on a unicycle - so it can be done!!)Also on the fire flasing past your face thing, just use one lit torch and just practise flipping it and seeing the flame coming close to your face - you WILL get over this eventually. remember:- The flames get smaller when the torch is in motion so its not that big infront of your face!! Also if the scoop thing works well then it doesnt come that close to your face anyways.Well done on getting to 45 throws - youre probably even further by now but keep on trying - ove been juggilng for YEARS now and im still learning every time i pick them up!!A nifty trick that you might like to try is to deliberately overspin one torch by half(1 1/2 flips) and catch the WRONG end. gently squeeze the wick and some fuel will ooze onto your palm, lit. drop the torches and it looks like you set yourself on fire. the fuel burns out quickly, doesnt burn you too much and gets quite a good reaction form the crowd!!Keep it upGruff

Posted: 31st Jan 2002
Here are a few tips from a former serious club juggler. Although I havn't really juggled clubs in several years I still remember some tips from the days I was learning.If you're looking straight forward then the direction you are looking is your center line. When you catch the clubs they should be pointing 45 degrees away from your center line. Catch the club, make a SCOOP motion and release the club pointing 45 degrees the other direction. Let me say that better: Catch a club in your right hand such that it's pointed 45 degrees to your right. With your right hand "scoop" the club such that when your hand is coming back up for the release your right hand is at the center line with the club pointed 45 degrees to the left. Release the club which is now pointed the proper direction for a left hand catch.When you are juggling clubs smoothly your two hands will sort of be drawing circles in the air. Your left hand going counter clockwise and your right hand clock wise.Re: Torches. They're much easier in partial light that in total darkness. In total darkness your eyes adjust to the brightness of the flame and you can't see the handles. However, you quickly get to the point of watching the slow-fast-slow loop of the flame to determine where the handle is. However, it would be better if you could practice/ perform in partially light.Once you have a good solid pattern there are some easy tricks to learn.Under the leg (both directions)Doubles (two spins instead of one spin tossed at half speed)Flash (two spins instead of one tossed at regular speed.) Think of this as being the first 3 tossed of a 5 club cascade. All 3 clubs are in the air at once for just an instantA bit harder moves:Rainbows: Right hand catches the club and moves it to point 90 degrees to your right. Do a double spin over your head and catch it as it points 90 degrees to your left. Do this in one direction only. If you try to do both directions at once the clubs will collide.Behind the back (occasional, not constants). Catch a right club and start to bring it behind your back. Look to your right to next "spot" the incoming club. Quickly turn your head to the left and spot the club that is coming from behind your back. That way you can see the incoming clubs from both directions.Hope it helps. Good luck to you. And Practice Practice Practice!

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Posted: 1st Feb 2002
I once had a gig similar in similar circustances.. but I could juggle. I just did not have any clubs.. so I made some up.. looked nice but were too short.. your arm kinda got roasted every time you hand came down after a catch or before a throw. Anyway I took my unicycle and endind up just riding the unicycle and not juggling my petite clubsbecause "they" thought it would look better..good luckjuggle in darknessso yor eyes get use to not seeing everything

Posted: 1st Feb 2002
I don't think the unicyle is quite the look they are after, although I always prefer to ride around if possible.Got some more details today, its for a hairdressers product release on a catwalk with models. I'll be leading them out and closing off the ceremony as well.I better practice practice practice...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

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Posted: 3rd Feb 2002
Thanks to everyone for all there suggestions.A week has now passed since I started practicing and last night I managed 2 lots of a hundred plus throws and catches. Though still not as consistent as I’d like it to be.I can do about twenty throws now without a drop (usually) and am trying to work on flourishes and doubles.The doubles are much much harder than I thought, but I think I’ll try to listen for the pattern of the WHOOSHes to help judge where the handles are.I hadn’t realised how much noise the tiny little wicks make…3 weeks to go til the performance… (wish me more luck please)------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

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Posted: 7th Feb 2002
the way i first learned to juggle clubs was to just take one and sit in from of the tv or whatever, throwing it up it up and down in one hand to get the rotation right.i did this til i could get the perfect rotation everytime then go on to two and three and it was easy from there (if u can juggle balls)the hardest thing is getting a consistant throw.

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Posted: 7th Feb 2002
good luck