Forums > Social Chat > Justification
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the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I was recently reading several articles written about the "new phenomenon" fire spinning. In every article the participants were described in a neo-goth-hippy, industrial scene with this ethereal attitude that seemed to make these "obscure and dangerous, not even circus' will take them on" arts to be something only party kids do.
I really resent that.
It seems that according to the media the picture of the neo-goth-hippy justifies the "desire for extreme self-expression and an almost airy nature of the person spinning".
First of all, with so many jumping in on this, it is not self-expression. Self-expression is unique.
Yes it is expression, but it no longer belongs to the self when there are 13 people on a stage doing the same thing at the same time. And airy nature? I think that confusing the sometimes spiritual experience people have with the fire with air-headedness is really quite insulting.
I happen to be a mother who attends my sons field trips, looks socially acceptible (most of the time), am the bench coach for my sons prep league baseball and am known to be quite the "Donna Reid" cooking and caring type when I want to be. So what is with the media needing to justify the passion by labelling it as a hobby for freaks only?
I was recently reading several articles written about the "new phenomenon" fire spinning. In every article the participants were described in a neo-goth-hippy, industrial scene with this ethereal attitude that seemed to make these "obscure and dangerous, not even circus' will take them on" arts to be something only party kids do.
I really resent that.
It seems that according to the media the picture of the neo-goth-hippy justifies the "desire for extreme self-expression and an almost airy nature of the person spinning".
First of all, with so many jumping in on this, it is not self-expression. Self-expression is unique.
Yes it is expression, but it no longer belongs to the self when there are 13 people on a stage doing the same thing at the same time. And airy nature? I think that confusing the sometimes spiritual experience people have with the fire with air-headedness is really quite insulting.
I happen to be a mother who attends my sons field trips, looks socially acceptible (most of the time), am the bench coach for my sons prep league baseball and am known to be quite the "Donna Reid" cooking and caring type when I want to be. So what is with the media needing to justify the passion by labelling it as a hobby for freaks only?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada
Posted:
my opinion:
the media (largely controlled by the government) has a tremendous power to control peoples minds. sometimes the government sees a certain counter culture that treatens to undermine the beliefs set up by the govt.. this happened with the hippies, who were trying to spread peace, love and simplicity. of course that means no wars, everybody gets along and we dont buy stuff. this would be bad. now the government/media probably has seen the same traits inherent in fire spinners. most of them do have hippy ideals. again this would be bad. so the government uses the media to put a bad stereotype of groups of people in our head so we never become peaceful.
anywayI'll shut up now, I really shouldn't get started with the government and media
high on the podium
master sodium
my opinion:
the media (largely controlled by the government) has a tremendous power to control peoples minds. sometimes the government sees a certain counter culture that treatens to undermine the beliefs set up by the govt.. this happened with the hippies, who were trying to spread peace, love and simplicity. of course that means no wars, everybody gets along and we dont buy stuff. this would be bad. now the government/media probably has seen the same traits inherent in fire spinners. most of them do have hippy ideals. again this would be bad. so the government uses the media to put a bad stereotype of groups of people in our head so we never become peaceful.
anywayI'll shut up now, I really shouldn't get started with the government and media
high on the podium
master sodium
you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.
member
135 posts
Location: Akron, Ohio
135 posts
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posted:
Pele: I would realy like to read that article.
There realy must not be anything going on in the world if people are writing articles on "Fire Spinning". And who exactly did the interview, to help form their "opinion". BTW I think opinions are like assholes.....Everyones got one and they usually stink.
Pele: I would realy like to read that article.
There realy must not be anything going on in the world if people are writing articles on "Fire Spinning". And who exactly did the interview, to help form their "opinion". BTW I think opinions are like assholes.....Everyones got one and they usually stink.
Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
My view is that spinning is a way for me to let out my artistic impulses, express myself, have something that makes me interesting, and have fun.
And if some newspaper wants to call me a hippie, goth, raver, freak, party kid, or "airy," then let them. I know who and what I am and I'm not out to win their acceptance.
My view is that spinning is a way for me to let out my artistic impulses, express myself, have something that makes me interesting, and have fun.
And if some newspaper wants to call me a hippie, goth, raver, freak, party kid, or "airy," then let them. I know who and what I am and I'm not out to win their acceptance.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Oolering Man
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
729 posts
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire
Posted:
quote:Exactly. No-one can tell you who you are, and as for me, I still haven't worked out who I am yet!
Originally posted by MikeGinny:
And if some newspaper wants to call me a hippie, goth, raver, freak, party kid, or "airy," then let them. I know who and what I am and I'm not out to win their acceptance.
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
I think this is a pretty good one:
https://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0223/kamenetz.php
Nomad
I think this is a pretty good one:
https://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0223/kamenetz.php
Nomad
member
63 posts
Location: fairieland
63 posts
Location: fairieland
Posted:
Pele, I am with you on this. Who did they interview that they feel they can label such a huge group so simply and easily. All they have to do is come and look at the web site to realize that people from every walk of life are here. I have to admit I have met a few "wingnuts" but as of yet none of them has actually lit up. I think the article that Nomad posted is a lot better written. They don't try to stereotype all twirlers and the people who were quoted all seemed intelligent. It was also nice to see that it's not all teenagers doing this. I thought I was old at 25!
Molly
Pele, I am with you on this. Who did they interview that they feel they can label such a huge group so simply and easily. All they have to do is come and look at the web site to realize that people from every walk of life are here. I have to admit I have met a few "wingnuts" but as of yet none of them has actually lit up. I think the article that Nomad posted is a lot better written. They don't try to stereotype all twirlers and the people who were quoted all seemed intelligent. It was also nice to see that it's not all teenagers doing this. I thought I was old at 25!
Molly
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Nice link Nomad. Too bad it says nothing of Cockporn.
I must admit though, as a fairly liberal guy I do find myself to be one of the few spinners in the area who has a 401k plan. The only reason I had to drop completely out of 1337 was because of my day job.
I do believe that the fire community, at least in the US, is a majority of neo-goth-hippy, industrial burningman kids. I know that Burningman, in all of it's beauty and neo-hippyness, does influence/identify a majority of the fire community in NYC.
I'm comfortable with that, as well as being comfortable about being an exception to that.
Nice link Nomad. Too bad it says nothing of Cockporn.
I must admit though, as a fairly liberal guy I do find myself to be one of the few spinners in the area who has a 401k plan. The only reason I had to drop completely out of 1337 was because of my day job.
I do believe that the fire community, at least in the US, is a majority of neo-goth-hippy, industrial burningman kids. I know that Burningman, in all of it's beauty and neo-hippyness, does influence/identify a majority of the fire community in NYC.
I'm comfortable with that, as well as being comfortable about being an exception to that.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
93 posts
Location: ringwood,nj usa
93 posts
Location: ringwood,nj usa
Posted:
Pele
this deffiition of freak comes from a couple of dicionaries i had to look it up when i refered to my self as a freak to my mom and she gasped and said don't say that sara you are not i said yes i am and i wave my flag mama
freak n. a sudden whim; a prank; capricious conduct; something or someone abnormal; a devotee; buff a. odd; unusual; free,bold
NYC i have 401k too
Pele
this deffiition of freak comes from a couple of dicionaries i had to look it up when i refered to my self as a freak to my mom and she gasped and said don't say that sara you are not i said yes i am and i wave my flag mama
freak n. a sudden whim; a prank; capricious conduct; something or someone abnormal; a devotee; buff a. odd; unusual; free,bold
NYC i have 401k too
Better to Burn out than Fade out, Baby!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Why use labels and make us all sound like freaks? It's not a government plot (Master NA, you may be smoking too much ).
"Dog bites man" won't sell papers but "Man bites dog" will. "Normal people spin things" doesn't sound so hot, but dress it up in an alternative culture and people are interested. Stories like spinning need an angle.
Similarly, in the knitting club I'm a part of we get a lot of press interest because we're 20 somethings, a lot of us artists, and we knit. That's a story with an angle, and that's interesting.
Why use labels and make us all sound like freaks? It's not a government plot (Master NA, you may be smoking too much ).
"Dog bites man" won't sell papers but "Man bites dog" will. "Normal people spin things" doesn't sound so hot, but dress it up in an alternative culture and people are interested. Stories like spinning need an angle.
Similarly, in the knitting club I'm a part of we get a lot of press interest because we're 20 somethings, a lot of us artists, and we knit. That's a story with an angle, and that's interesting.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
The only people who can control your mind is you...you make yourself happy, sad, right wrong etc etc. It's the same with media, it the way you think about it to yourself that matters, it's not mind control, it's just people being to lazy to challenge tyhe news with other experiences that might be contrary...anyeay, enough ranting back to my gorgeous new wife...
quote:No way...are you saying you can be controlled by the media? All that really happens is those people who don't want to be bothered thinking when they hear news or read it accept it all as gospel.
the media (largely controlled by the government) has a tremendous power to control peoples minds
The only people who can control your mind is you...you make yourself happy, sad, right wrong etc etc. It's the same with media, it the way you think about it to yourself that matters, it's not mind control, it's just people being to lazy to challenge tyhe news with other experiences that might be contrary...anyeay, enough ranting back to my gorgeous new wife...
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member
16 posts
Location: Newcastle, Australia
16 posts
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posted:
Ahhh, back to the old the media controls society argument.
In my experience, most of the spinners I have met haven't been overly "hippy" but have looked more mainstreamish, indistinguishable from anyone else, until they pick up a staff or poi that is.
I've even seen some hardcore spinners, now that one is interesting.
Myself, I wouldn't classify myself as a hippy or under any of those groups. I am a gamer, which can translate to Nerd or whatever, but I spin, and I enjoy it. It's all that matters to me. The excercise is just a bonus.
Ahhh, back to the old the media controls society argument.
In my experience, most of the spinners I have met haven't been overly "hippy" but have looked more mainstreamish, indistinguishable from anyone else, until they pick up a staff or poi that is.
I've even seen some hardcore spinners, now that one is interesting.
Myself, I wouldn't classify myself as a hippy or under any of those groups. I am a gamer, which can translate to Nerd or whatever, but I spin, and I enjoy it. It's all that matters to me. The excercise is just a bonus.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Bongo...
In our world, gamer=geek.....nerds are the science guy who like to look at mold!
*g*
I am proud ot be a fem-geek!
Bongo...
In our world, gamer=geek.....nerds are the science guy who like to look at mold!
*g*
I am proud ot be a fem-geek!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
member
184 posts
Location: London
184 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Hey Dom, I've read about the knitting group you're part of.... in the media somewhere.
And yeah, you're spot on.
I don't buy the "government controls the media line" at all (except in places like Zimbabwe). The media is responsible for uncovering an awful lot of scandals and governmental goings on. Of course there's an uneasy relationship, and there are many occassions when there are strong forces (generally financial!) pushing the media and government into bed together, but call me an optimist, I don't think the situation is too bad in the west... in fact, in many ways, I think the media has considerable power over governments.
The best thing to do personally is consume quality news reporting, consume a wide spectrum of news, and don't confine yourself to the big guys of the media world - there's some great reporting in a lot of obscure places out there.
And Dom, Knit on!
Hey Dom, I've read about the knitting group you're part of.... in the media somewhere.
And yeah, you're spot on.
I don't buy the "government controls the media line" at all (except in places like Zimbabwe). The media is responsible for uncovering an awful lot of scandals and governmental goings on. Of course there's an uneasy relationship, and there are many occassions when there are strong forces (generally financial!) pushing the media and government into bed together, but call me an optimist, I don't think the situation is too bad in the west... in fact, in many ways, I think the media has considerable power over governments.
The best thing to do personally is consume quality news reporting, consume a wide spectrum of news, and don't confine yourself to the big guys of the media world - there's some great reporting in a lot of obscure places out there.
And Dom, Knit on!
member
171 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
171 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Or give away your TV and do something less boring instead...
Like knit.
Or give away your TV and do something less boring instead...
Like knit.
member
13 posts
Location: japan
13 posts
Location: japan
Posted:
or Bonsai...
or Bonsai...
Wax on...Wax off.
member
184 posts
Location: London
184 posts
Location: London
Posted:
He he... I knit in front of the telly! Not that I knit very often, I hasten to add. Doing more crocheting at the moment. We're making a house blanket, it's very chaotic, to say the least, and the ugliest thing you've ever seen. I love freeform crochet! Knitting is a lot more controlled.
My grandmother used to read while she knit. I don't think I'm up to that level of coordination, though.
My mother takes her knitting in to work (she's a teacher) and sits in the staff room knitting. Maybe I can hook her up with Dom's group and she can be the founding member of their all new Australian branch!
Ooops, sorry, ~kicks self back on topic~
He he... I knit in front of the telly! Not that I knit very often, I hasten to add. Doing more crocheting at the moment. We're making a house blanket, it's very chaotic, to say the least, and the ugliest thing you've ever seen. I love freeform crochet! Knitting is a lot more controlled.
My grandmother used to read while she knit. I don't think I'm up to that level of coordination, though.
My mother takes her knitting in to work (she's a teacher) and sits in the staff room knitting. Maybe I can hook her up with Dom's group and she can be the founding member of their all new Australian branch!
Ooops, sorry, ~kicks self back on topic~
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
"I must admit though, as a fairly liberal guy I do find myself to be one of the few spinners in the area who has a 401k plan. The only reason I had to drop completely out of 1337 was because of my day job. "
NYC, in the fire community, you have to switch the balance of what is considered liberal towards more extremes. I think of myself as a very liberal person as well, free spirited and open minded. However, among certain people I have encountered in the US fire tribe, i feel like a conservative. But i still don't have a 401K plan
"I do believe that the fire community, at least in the US, is a majority of neo-goth-hippy, industrial burningman kids. I know that Burningman, in all of it's beauty and neo-hippyness, does influence/identify a majority of the fire community in NYC."
True, the NY community is very much Burning Man. In Boston, people come from more various backgrounds and I am the only one in ANTHELION who has been to BM. It's changing this year, i'm taking 4 of them with me . People in the group picked up fire in different circumstances:
-summer music festival (Berkshire)
-travel in southeast Asia (a classic)
-stay in Australia (another classic)
-trance party in Germany
-dating a fire spinner
"I'm comfortable with that, as well as being comfortable about being an exception to that."
That's very cool.
Hey, are you gonna come to the "9 circles of hell" event mentionned in the article? I'll be there with my crew as well.
Nomad
"I must admit though, as a fairly liberal guy I do find myself to be one of the few spinners in the area who has a 401k plan. The only reason I had to drop completely out of 1337 was because of my day job. "
NYC, in the fire community, you have to switch the balance of what is considered liberal towards more extremes. I think of myself as a very liberal person as well, free spirited and open minded. However, among certain people I have encountered in the US fire tribe, i feel like a conservative. But i still don't have a 401K plan
"I do believe that the fire community, at least in the US, is a majority of neo-goth-hippy, industrial burningman kids. I know that Burningman, in all of it's beauty and neo-hippyness, does influence/identify a majority of the fire community in NYC."
True, the NY community is very much Burning Man. In Boston, people come from more various backgrounds and I am the only one in ANTHELION who has been to BM. It's changing this year, i'm taking 4 of them with me . People in the group picked up fire in different circumstances:
-summer music festival (Berkshire)
-travel in southeast Asia (a classic)
-stay in Australia (another classic)
-trance party in Germany
-dating a fire spinner
"I'm comfortable with that, as well as being comfortable about being an exception to that."
That's very cool.
Hey, are you gonna come to the "9 circles of hell" event mentionned in the article? I'll be there with my crew as well.
Nomad
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
someone wanna clue me in on thsi event?
someone wanna clue me in on thsi event?
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I'd also like to submit a Darwinian argument.
To get any good at this takes a certain amount of dedication, concentration, and determination. So almost by definition, a spinner can't be too "airy."
On the other hand, if you are a fleeting and "airy" person, you'll give this a try, get frustrated at the lack of instant gratification, and give up.
So, as Darwin might say, this activity selects for people who can commit to a goal and achieve it.
I'd also like to submit a Darwinian argument.
To get any good at this takes a certain amount of dedication, concentration, and determination. So almost by definition, a spinner can't be too "airy."
On the other hand, if you are a fleeting and "airy" person, you'll give this a try, get frustrated at the lack of instant gratification, and give up.
So, as Darwin might say, this activity selects for people who can commit to a goal and achieve it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
retired
356 posts
Location: Paris, France
Posted:
Kyrian, go to www.augenblick.ws.
Nomad
Kyrian, go to www.augenblick.ws.
Nomad
member
184 posts
Location: London
184 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Now that strikes me as a very astute observation, Mike.
So many people want to try and then give up after 5 minutes when they've hit themselves in the head 3 times and got completely tangled.
Now that strikes me as a very astute observation, Mike.
So many people want to try and then give up after 5 minutes when they've hit themselves in the head 3 times and got completely tangled.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Sepa,
It wasn't hitting myself in the head that made me want to give up. It was a different place...
Darwin might also say that male poi spinners are selected against on a reproductive basis...
Sepa,
It wasn't hitting myself in the head that made me want to give up. It was a different place...
Darwin might also say that male poi spinners are selected against on a reproductive basis...
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
IMO i think there are more males then females though....
IMO i think there are more males then females though....
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
member
428 posts
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
428 posts
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Posted:
hey i have a 401K plan
but in a neo-hippe way its Calvert Socially Responsible mutual funds (which means i dont make any money, but oh well...)
Pere
sadly not going to 9 circles of hell with anthelion but i'm not very demonic anyway...
hey i have a 401K plan
but in a neo-hippe way its Calvert Socially Responsible mutual funds (which means i dont make any money, but oh well...)
Pere
sadly not going to 9 circles of hell with anthelion but i'm not very demonic anyway...
member
184 posts
Location: London
184 posts
Location: London
Posted:
*blush* I didn't think of that one.
*blush* I didn't think of that one.
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