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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Advanced Isolations: Point Isolations and Isolation Weave?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
Member
5 posts
Location: USA
Member
5 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I'd say i'm something of a newbie (aren't we all?), and I've recently begun to play with Isolations and such. I can do a somewhat shoddy iso-buzzsaw and various other isolation trickery. No matter how hard I try, I can never get seem to get a point isolation (an isolation in which your hand rotates entirely around the head). They're bonafide impossible. Do you have any pointers for this?
The isolation weave is also positively devilish. Any advice on this as well?
Thanks!
I'd say i'm something of a newbie (aren't we all?), and I've recently begun to play with Isolations and such. I can do a somewhat shoddy iso-buzzsaw and various other isolation trickery. No matter how hard I try, I can never get seem to get a point isolation (an isolation in which your hand rotates entirely around the head). They're bonafide impossible. Do you have any pointers for this?
The isolation weave is also positively devilish. Any advice on this as well?
Thanks!
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
uhm, to the best of my knowledge, its very difficult to get more than 1/2 of a point isolation, and next to impossible to do it continuously. this is because of the speeds your hands would have to reach
cheers, pete
uhm, to the best of my knowledge, its very difficult to get more than 1/2 of a point isolation, and next to impossible to do it continuously. this is because of the speeds your hands would have to reach
cheers, pete
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
GOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA
Posted:
if you spin in reverse, then at some point punch through the poi, that's a point isolation...but its odd
if you spin in reverse, then at some point punch through the poi, that's a point isolation...but its odd
kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
the speed of light?
88 miles per hour, allowing you to travel through space and time?
oh sorry....
Written by: pineapple pete
this is because of the speeds your hands would have to reach
the speed of light?
88 miles per hour, allowing you to travel through space and time?
oh sorry....
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
I've worked quite a bit on isolations striving for more than 1/2 point isolations. My only advice is to try and over eggarate your arm and body movements. You may look like a frog in a blender doing a weve but it helps me. You know you have an isolated weave when the chains stay parallel the entire time and your hands are with the opposite poi head. As you get crossed up doing the weve turn your body and open up to get that stretch. That tricky part makes the isolated weave. IMO
I've worked quite a bit on isolations striving for more than 1/2 point isolations. My only advice is to try and over eggarate your arm and body movements. You may look like a frog in a blender doing a weve but it helps me. You know you have an isolated weave when the chains stay parallel the entire time and your hands are with the opposite poi head. As you get crossed up doing the weve turn your body and open up to get that stretch. That tricky part makes the isolated weave. IMO
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
SILVER Member
Member
5 posts
Location: USA
Member
5 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Alright. I'll get on it. One last question, though: Are there any tutorial videos for a point isolation or an isolation weave?
Alright. I'll get on it. One last question, though: Are there any tutorial videos for a point isolation or an isolation weave?
SILVER Member
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
That guy from Reno
556 posts
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Posted:
I would love to see a video too. I'd make one but mine aren't perfect. If one doesn't exist maybee I'll give it a shot.
When I was practicing this at Burningman some other spinners approached me. They wanted to see what I was spinning since they had seen me from a distance. First they thought it was a staff, then they thought it was a tri-sectional staff, but in the end were supprised to see it was poi. When I was dead on it does look like a staff. When I was just off and the chains were not quite parallel it looked like a tri-sectioanl staff.
I prefer the reverse weve for isolations. Watch your hands and try to get them to pull apart towards the opposite poi head. You have to slow down the spin but speed up your hand. As your hands start making bigger circles you need to twist your torso for the stretch. I do a dip/twist/open on each side to make that cross. Giant movements. Heavy poi help too.
I would love to see a video too. I'd make one but mine aren't perfect. If one doesn't exist maybee I'll give it a shot.
When I was practicing this at Burningman some other spinners approached me. They wanted to see what I was spinning since they had seen me from a distance. First they thought it was a staff, then they thought it was a tri-sectional staff, but in the end were supprised to see it was poi. When I was dead on it does look like a staff. When I was just off and the chains were not quite parallel it looked like a tri-sectioanl staff.
I prefer the reverse weve for isolations. Watch your hands and try to get them to pull apart towards the opposite poi head. You have to slow down the spin but speed up your hand. As your hands start making bigger circles you need to twist your torso for the stretch. I do a dip/twist/open on each side to make that cross. Giant movements. Heavy poi help too.
Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada
BRONZE Member
newbie
1 post
Location: USA
newbie
1 post
Location: USA
Posted:
hey, i saw this one dude totally fre dancin a while ago, but the flame was blue and green. does anyone know how to change the color of the flame when perfoming fire dancin? cause im kinda new to the whole thing, but i really got the hang of it all. cept for this little trick. so, any idea's or knowledge of it?
hey, i saw this one dude totally fre dancin a while ago, but the flame was blue and green. does anyone know how to change the color of the flame when perfoming fire dancin? cause im kinda new to the whole thing, but i really got the hang of it all. cept for this little trick. so, any idea's or knowledge of it?
Member
34 posts
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
34 posts
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posted:
I've been playing with isolations for awhile now, I belive i got the iso weave down (5 beat weave)....
Let me know what yal think about this video. I do a fair amount of isolations in the second burn. ENJOY!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Oz7sT8ho8
EDITED_BY: kepki2003 (1173311840)
I've been playing with isolations for awhile now, I belive i got the iso weave down (5 beat weave)....
Let me know what yal think about this video. I do a fair amount of isolations in the second burn. ENJOY!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Oz7sT8ho8
EDITED_BY: kepki2003 (1173311840)
Spin More Poi!!!
BRONZE Member
stranger
17 posts
Location: USA
stranger
17 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
nice isolated weaves! I've been working on mine for a few months and I'm just starting to get the forwards one.
i worked up to mine by getting the isolated buzzsaw down solid, and then spinning a "buzzsaw" with one poi outside my arms, to get my hands used to isolating with the poi outside. that seemed to help give me a better foundation for moving from the buzzsaw to the weave.
also, I've managed to do something of a point iso by almost stalling the poi vertically and spinning by hand around it really quick. That only works for one beat though. I think I've heard people talk about real point isos somewhere else tho.
EDITED_BY: sxsk17 (1173399737)
nice isolated weaves! I've been working on mine for a few months and I'm just starting to get the forwards one.
i worked up to mine by getting the isolated buzzsaw down solid, and then spinning a "buzzsaw" with one poi outside my arms, to get my hands used to isolating with the poi outside. that seemed to help give me a better foundation for moving from the buzzsaw to the weave.
also, I've managed to do something of a point iso by almost stalling the poi vertically and spinning by hand around it really quick. That only works for one beat though. I think I've heard people talk about real point isos somewhere else tho.
EDITED_BY: sxsk17 (1173399737)
BRONZE Member
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I'm looking for some further help/instruction. I may post a new thread because the move I'm wondering, I'm still not sure if it's just a super excellent isolation weave or something else entirely.
At the current moment, I cannot for the life of me figure out in which video Nick mentioned it in, but he mentioned a move called "Rock the Cradle" and he specifically mentioned the poi spinners in Japan, and the only examples I can clearly see of it are in some of yuta's videos:
the first and best is the seminal yuta video seen here:
2:12-2:24
and also here:
1:25-1:31
Is this just a super isolation move or is he crossing chains and doing something called "rock the cradle"?
I'm looking for some further help/instruction. I may post a new thread because the move I'm wondering, I'm still not sure if it's just a super excellent isolation weave or something else entirely.
At the current moment, I cannot for the life of me figure out in which video Nick mentioned it in, but he mentioned a move called "Rock the Cradle" and he specifically mentioned the poi spinners in Japan, and the only examples I can clearly see of it are in some of yuta's videos:
the first and best is the seminal yuta video seen here:
2:12-2:24
and also here:
1:25-1:31
Is this just a super isolation move or is he crossing chains and doing something called "rock the cradle"?
known to wear fancy pants
11 posts
Location: New Jersey
11 posts
Location: New Jersey
Posted:
might be hybrids or just doing isolations in wallplane
might be hybrids or just doing isolations in wallplane
spin happy
GOLD Member
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
in the first vid its a bit easier to see. Anyway looks like one of 2 things, either he's doing some really really good isolations (kinda hybridy for part of the circle...) or he's grabbing the opposite change and keeping the separation. Personally I think its chain grabbing, and the only reason being that I think I see the chains slack a bit at certain points between his hands while the part outside the hands stays taught. But I could be wrong.
in the first vid its a bit easier to see. Anyway looks like one of 2 things, either he's doing some really really good isolations (kinda hybridy for part of the circle...) or he's grabbing the opposite change and keeping the separation. Personally I think its chain grabbing, and the only reason being that I think I see the chains slack a bit at certain points between his hands while the part outside the hands stays taught. But I could be wrong.
I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.
BRONZE Member
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Imbalance, that's what I thought. And that's what I think Nick Woolsey is referring to when he referred to the "Rock the Cradle" move. A sort of grabbing of the chains and doing an isolation weave with it, but I can't figure out the hand movements.
Is there anyone else out there that has a video of this move, or who does this move, and can explain it?
Imbalance, that's what I thought. And that's what I think Nick Woolsey is referring to when he referred to the "Rock the Cradle" move. A sort of grabbing of the chains and doing an isolation weave with it, but I can't figure out the hand movements.
Is there anyone else out there that has a video of this move, or who does this move, and can explain it?
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
surely its jus an isolated fountain?
surely its jus an isolated fountain?
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
GOLD Member
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
the hand movements aren't that bad actually, go grab a staff or a pole or something of appropriate length and try and mimic what he's doing. You'll quickly find you just wind up one way then unwind the other. it looks like he's crossing over as well as part of the wind/unwind process.
the hand movements aren't that bad actually, go grab a staff or a pole or something of appropriate length and try and mimic what he's doing. You'll quickly find you just wind up one way then unwind the other. it looks like he's crossing over as well as part of the wind/unwind process.
I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.
BRONZE Member
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Imbalance:
The problem is I cannot see what he is doing to mimic it, which is why I'm looking for
a. a better specifically written out explanation
or
b. a better video demo of all the hand movements
The reason I'm asking, is because try as I might, I can't figure out where his hands are going. If I knew exactly where his hands were going, I wouldn't be asking for help with this move, I'd be out trying to perfect it.
Imbalance:
The problem is I cannot see what he is doing to mimic it, which is why I'm looking for
a. a better specifically written out explanation
or
b. a better video demo of all the hand movements
The reason I'm asking, is because try as I might, I can't figure out where his hands are going. If I knew exactly where his hands were going, I wouldn't be asking for help with this move, I'd be out trying to perfect it
. BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
can you do a fountain? if not learn it, then just isolate that move
can you do a fountain? if not learn it, then just isolate that move
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
SILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Posted:
They're just very clean isolated weaves turned in wall plane... Still very hard, but I don't think there's any chain grabbing going on, just a high level of skill.
They're just very clean isolated weaves turned in wall plane... Still very hard, but I don't think there's any chain grabbing going on, just a high level of skill.
BRONZE Member
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
simta:
so basically... an isolated fountain without the overhead motion?
chutney: thank you, that makes more sense. I think i need to video myself to see how close I'm getting. I'll let you guys know when I do that.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
p.s. - if yuta isn't grabbing the chains in these videos... then what was nick saying in regards to "rock the cradle"? has anyone else ever heard of that move?
simta:
so basically... an isolated fountain without the overhead motion?
chutney: thank you, that makes more sense. I think i need to video myself to see how close I'm getting. I'll let you guys know when I do that.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
p.s. - if yuta isn't grabbing the chains in these videos... then what was nick saying in regards to "rock the cradle"? has anyone else ever heard of that move?
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
I don't think Yuta is "rocking the cradle" in either vid. I tried to find which of Nick's youtube tutorials I remembered "rock the cradle" mentioned, but I haven't located it yet... if I do I'll post a link.
I think he is talking about going into some form of 1st degree inversion (barrel roll), and stalling both poi on the arms to reverse directions. It is a bit like the windup that Rovo is so fond of... but Rovo's is an airwrap tangle to stall on both arms... Rock the cradle is barrel roll to stall on both arms (my best guess).
Arashi showed me something like that like 4+ years ago when he was showing me isolations and inversions... at the time it just melted my mind.
-Alien Jon
I don't think Yuta is "rocking the cradle" in either vid. I tried to find which of Nick's youtube tutorials I remembered "rock the cradle" mentioned, but I haven't located it yet... if I do I'll post a link.
I think he is talking about going into some form of 1st degree inversion (barrel roll), and stalling both poi on the arms to reverse directions. It is a bit like the windup that Rovo is so fond of... but Rovo's is an airwrap tangle to stall on both arms... Rock the cradle is barrel roll to stall on both arms (my best guess).
Arashi showed me something like that like 4+ years ago when he was showing me isolations and inversions... at the time it just melted my mind.
-Alien Jon
+Alien Jon
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
well in the first video looks like he brings it up and over when it comes from the right side as oppose to if it was simply isolated weave it should stay level
but there is def no chain grabbing involved
Written by: yinyangraver
simta:
so basically... an isolated fountain without the overhead motion?
chutney: thank you, that makes more sense. I think i need to video myself to see how close I'm getting. I'll let you guys know when I do that.
well in the first video looks like he brings it up and over when it comes from the right side as oppose to if it was simply isolated weave it should stay level
but there is def no chain grabbing involved
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWNx_YaDOE
This is the video which mentions the rock the cradle move, which seems to be more based around inversions to me but I'm not sure. Incidentally the video is about isolated weave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npWNx_YaDOE
This is the video which mentions the rock the cradle move, which seems to be more based around inversions to me but I'm not sure. Incidentally the video is about isolated weave
UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."
Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump
BRONZE Member
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
newbie
8 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Yoni - thank you! that was the video indeed. And Nick specifically mentions yuta. And he is grabbing the string/chain... at least nick is.
Edit: I think yuta might be cradling the chains at some point. Found this video on youtube which slows down the isolation.
Okay here is my beat count:
One front wallplane
Two opposite side regular beat (with body turned to match wallplane)
One front wallplane
One same side regular (with body turned to match wallplane)
repeats...
And he's just doing it with insanely good precision.
Does that seem right everyone?
EDITED_BY: yinyangraver (1204502787)
Yoni - thank you! that was the video indeed. And Nick specifically mentions yuta. And he is grabbing the string/chain... at least nick is.
Edit: I think yuta might be cradling the chains at some point. Found this video on youtube which slows down the isolation.
Okay here is my beat count:
One front wallplane
Two opposite side regular beat (with body turned to match wallplane)
One front wallplane
One same side regular (with body turned to match wallplane)
repeats...
And he's just doing it with insanely good precision.
Does that seem right everyone?
EDITED_BY: yinyangraver (1204502787)
GOLD Member
I can´t think therefore I´m not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom
I can´t think therefore I´m not
291 posts
Location: In my backpack, United Kingdom
Posted:
He dosnt touch or grab the chain once, he`s doing isolations if he grabed the chains he`s arm wouldn`t have the same motion.
This is 2005 so the isolations is not the best ones but surerly he doesn`t grab the chain but he touches it by misstake once when he`s doing reversed weave but that is becase it`s god damn difficult to keep the planes and not hit your arms with the other poi when doing reversed.
That`s my 5 cents, but on the other hand it`s not me playing so to get a fefinitly answer, ask Yuta
He dosnt touch or grab the chain once, he`s doing isolations if he grabed the chains he`s arm wouldn`t have the same motion.
This is 2005 so the isolations is not the best ones but surerly he doesn`t grab the chain but he touches it by misstake once when he`s doing reversed weave but that is becase it`s god damn difficult to keep the planes and not hit your arms with the other poi when doing reversed.
That`s my 5 cents, but on the other hand it`s not me playing so to get a fefinitly answer, ask Yuta
"I don´t like shoes, definitely not spinning with shoes, they make my feet feel flat, my feet are not flat...."
newbie
19 posts
Location: caldera
19 posts
Location: caldera
Posted:
no yuta isn't grabbing the chain's, it's just that his control is absolutly perfecto. i've seen this technique of his live and his not touching the chains
no yuta isn't grabbing the chain's, it's just that his control is absolutly perfecto. i've seen this technique of his live and his not touching the chains
GOLD Member
newbie
4 posts
Location: Portland, OR, USA
newbie
4 posts
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posted:
Various colors of flame can be accomplished using various fuel mixes, though these can be extremely dangerous and cause chemical burns if handled improperly; definitely an advanced practice but one I hope to pursue eventually, get me some flashy protective gear ;-)
Various colors of flame can be accomplished using various fuel mixes, though these can be extremely dangerous and cause chemical burns if handled improperly; definitely an advanced practice but one I hope to pursue eventually, get me some flashy protective gear ;-)
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