Forums > Social Discussion > 9/11 Movie - wtf?

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
Sigh.

Another Hollywood movie to avoid at all costs.

Getting to the other side

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
don't jump to conclusions about what this film will or will not suggest.



i would doubt very much that it will approach the 'whodunnit' side of 9/11 at all and rather, i would guess that it is a film presenting highly personal stories of that terrible day.





come on man, think about it - oliver stone made 'jfk' which presents one of the most convincing arguments for the kennedy assassination conspiracy theory that i've ever seen.



he has recently been quoted as saying:



"There was an over-reaction after 9/11. Bush was given enormous powers and misused them. He created a war in Iraq that has further helped bust the economy, and has led to civil war there.

He was the wrong leader at the wrong time. I always felt that. I wish I was wrong."





stone is not the kind of man that would deminish his artistic integrity by creating a movie solely to protect his government's reputation, let alone to further an alleged conspiracy cover-up.







as with all of stone's flicks, i'll be eagerly waiting for this and will definitely be watching it.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
If they do it like Band Of Brothers then it should be ok. It should be really gritty and realistic to be a fitting tribute to those who lost their lives both in the towers and trying to save those who were trapped, not some hollywood bubblebum cash in. They should do it like a documentary following one of the rescuers and not romanticise it in the way they did Pearl Harbour. If they do I will personally nuke Hollywood!!

But who am I kidding? They'll do it to make as much money out of it as possible.

Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
True, but you know this movie is going to be dripping with long shots of the American flag accompanied by more nauseating patriotism.

If I need to hear more accounts from survivors of 9/11, there are plenty of documentaries already out there.

Why fictionalise it?

(But yes, I know there will always be movies made about such a dramatic event - i just prefer to avoid hollywood when possible. Putting a shiny gloss on such a terrible loss of life feels wrong)

Getting to the other side

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
i'm really sorry, but i really can't see how 9/11 could be staged.

it just doesnt mesh in my head...

"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA

"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
its oliver stone making this not some american 'i hold patriotism higher than i hold the truth' director like michael bay or jonathan mostow.



do not prejudge, lest ye be prejudiced



films that 'dramatise' tragic events do more than just that - they also personalise them.



off the top of my head, schindler's list is a good example of a film with this purpose/in this genre.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 4th Aug 2005




Fair enough. I'll wait and see.

But still, I find it hard to believe that the most publicised movie about 9/11 (to date) will not be overwhelmed with patriotic vitriol.

Stone will be crucified for anything less.

Getting to the other side

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
I am not the most patriotic person you will ever meet by any means, but for Yoda's sake, is anyone else offended by this? It is in bad taste. Some cable network here in the states also just released a television show about the war in Iraq....as in the war that is still going on. They are both in my humble opinion, disrespectful and they cheapen the lives lost by dramatizing them on a screen (whether a small screen or silver). Two thumbs down...

"...heaven is ordering a six piece chicken nugget and getting seven...and a switchblade."

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
On the morality side of it, then there are plenty of war films etc. No-one makes a *huge* fuss about that.

Am I going to see it or not? No, cos I can't stand Nicholas Cage. And also because I give it 60/40 odds that it will be dripping patriotism.

And of course the media will give it far more attention than they should, because it's America, and obviously anything to do with America is more important than other news-worthy items...

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Posted: 4th Aug 2005
obviously;

pearl harbor, anyone?

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Posted: 5th Aug 2005
shouldn't that be:



born on the fourth of july, anyone?





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 5th Aug 2005

Written by: Phae'xorl

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I am not the most patriotic person you will ever meet by any means, but for Yoda's sake, is anyone else offended by this? It is in bad taste...

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It used to be that they would wait decades before dramatizing something of this magnitude, out of respect for the victim's & their families. Nowadays, you have agents calling the parents of missing children, trying to buy movie rights, before they even find the child!
I would've waited at least until the 10 year anniversary before making a movie like this. I'm curious to see how graphic he makes it.

MiG: There are many people who believe 9/11 was staged by this administration. I am begrudginly one of those people. But that's a whole 'nother thread...

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

Posted: 5th Aug 2005

Written by:

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It used to be that they would wait decades before dramatizing something of this magnitude, out of respect for the victim's & their families

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Black hawk down didn't take long to come out

Posted: 5th Aug 2005
only in America!!!

Thats all i have to say

You'll find me on the dance floor

Posted: 5th Aug 2005

Written by: coleman

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films that 'dramatise' tragic events do more than just that - they also personalise them.

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unfortunately this is america were talking, and is it not apparent that they've monoplied 9/11 so much so. i mean, there are lighters with planes going into the twin towers on them, and now a film, not even 5yrs after the event where a heck of a lot of people lost their lives.
its sick!!!!

this isnt about personalising anything. its about knowing how much 9/11 effected everyone, and knowing they'll go to see it in the cinema because of that and making one heck of a buck from a sick nasty tragic event!!!

A little tenderness is needed around what happened then, and making a film will in now way do this!! This is money making propoganda . There i said it!!

and apperently that wasnt all i had to say

You'll find me on the dance floor

Posted: 5th Aug 2005

Written by: arty farty

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only in America!!!

Thats all i have to say

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what're you, Don King?

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

Posted: 8th Aug 2005

Written by: arty farty

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A little tenderness is needed around what happened then, and making a film will in now way do this!! This is money making propoganda . There i said it!!

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i find it amusing that a film like farenheit 9/11 came out and none of these opinions were voiced - it has not even been mentioned in this thread.

that movie is about as close to money-making propaganda as you're allowed to get!
and it was made nearly 2 years ago - was that not too soon?

why is it that a film based on what happened that day and dealing with how it affected people on an individual level, must be all about the dollar and obviously propaganda?


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 8th Aug 2005
Hmmm. Good point.

Maybe because it's hard to believe (going by releases to date) that Hollywood could take individual stories and really get the point across without falling into patriotism.

How that film is received in America will be the biggest issue for the filmmaker (I believe), and I think he will be under alot of pressure. But perhaps you're right. Maybe they will surprise us, which would be nice

Farenheit 9/11 was an independent which became successful. It was a propaganda film that tried to look at why it happened (and apportion it's own blame), rather than who it happened to.

Getting to the other side

Posted: 8th Aug 2005
Wow.... *mod hat off*

I am pretty upset, will probably told that I am over-reacting here ...and I don't really care because truthfully... in my own heart, I'm not. We get people all the time who complain about some group being bashed and you know what I see alot of is American bashing...and this thread is kind of the straw breaking the camel's back for me.

First of all, please cut it with the generic "It's America" crap. I am soooooooooooo sick and tired of it. I am not patriotic, not in the least. I agree with the quote that Coleman put up with Stone, and I will publically speak out against Bush any day, any time. You are discussing "Hollywood" and not an American ideal.

But you know what...I am American, and I am not ashamed of it. It is a geographical location and does not define the mentality of those of us who live here. The Australian Prime Minister is an arse, the British one is an jerk..they are in on this "War on Terrorism" not Bush alone. And I can't think of a time when the world agreed to love any leader. So why is it that I can seperate others from their political system and yet when something that is not liked comes out of America the blame is placed on "Americans" and not where it needs to be.

The war is the *political system*, which is absolutely not indicative of the people or our opinions. This war is DESTROYING America and Americans. It is wrong. It is horrible. So explain to me again how pointing fingers is helping? Please tell me, is England in the middle of the greatest econimical depressions they have known in decades? I honestly do not know and so I am curious. We are supposedly coming out of it here (most of us don't see that). Explain to me why Bush, who is hated globally, was *expected* by other global societies to pledge an ungodly amount of money to Africa, a continent in which the countries will not even allow itself to stop in-fighting on its own long enough to learn to pick itself up while we have record levels of unemployment, poverty, homelessness, etc. here at home? If "America" is so bad, then why did a global report release that the vast percentage (the exact number elludes me) of Tsunami relief come from the donations of the American public, not from the political leaders...from the people? Please keep politics and the people seperate when you are discussing them (and as soon as I find something in the political system here to praise, I'll let you know)

This movie, and any marketting, are Hollywood and major companies. Not Americans, otherwise I would be making money of the craploads of tourists...and I am not.

And for the record, I went to the Trade Center site, and there was a bus full of British Tourists and a van full of Japanese tourists who were not only purchasing the marketting propaganda but they were pointing, laughing and joking and saying "cheese" in the photo's as if they were at Disney and not at the site of a *massacre*. It was disgusting.
That level of disrespect is not the domain of Americans.

I have seen alot of the same crap come out of other countries...about the IRA, about a dingo who ate someone's baby, etc. And I bet hands down, there will be a movie, a show, something about the bombings in London in a couple years.
Welcome to the grubby world of entertainment and opportunism.

As for the examples given, what about all the movies about Victorian, the Rennaisance and Medieval times they haven't been romanticised? Including those made in other countries? I don't see people in them puking all over one another and covered in dirt and fecal matter and dieing of the plague. Pearl Harbor, and many war era movies, was another version of romantic notion- presentation style. The only difference is the time which seperates the glorification of a gnarly period in time. That is getting shorter.

Let's see though, I enjoyed "Black Hawk Down" tremendously. Enough that it inspired me to read the 23 part articles written for a newspaper about it. It was amazing and the movie was pretty accurate without all of the political hoo-ha.
My son *loves* the new show about the Iraqy war (Over There), and it is not disrespectful at all. It honors those men and women for doing their *jobs*, and does not put politics into it. There are people in the show depicted who do not agree with being there but are their to do their jobs. My son has maintained for years that he wants to be in the military (which I DO NOT agree with on many levels, but support him in it nonetheless) is getting an idea of the current dynamics of war. He did when he watched Black Hawk Down and even Saving Private Ryan with me.
Or the show that Steven Spielberg created about the two sides of the Native American plight (Into the West). It made us think, and research and was soooo interesting.

And perhaps this is the shot in the butt we need. To be inspired to remember to look past the "cold-hard" media and into something more personal. To research into it and decide for ourselves what our p.o.v. truly is, instead of being lead blindly by partial truths and half stories we are being fed. How is instilling a personalized approach into that wrong?

I do agree this wound is still too green to be marketting on. I thought Farenheit 9/11 was interesting but untimely and too slanted, and it was discussed on these boards.
From what I understand this new movie is taking the real stories of two real men, Hollywood-ising it and making a movie, not a political statement. Stone has been very consistent with his movie choices thusfar, and I have faith in him in this one. I probably won't see it, as I am with Sethis, and am not fond of Cage.

If they do put too much patriotic crap in it, they ill lose more money than gain. Hollywood is not stupid, and they know global appeal is a huge part of the market.

As for conspiracy theories, if the US was part of the Trade Center tragedy, then Brit gov. is in on the current bombs there.
Or my favorite is that they have never happened and were hugely staged effects by the gov't who relocated the "victims" secretly, and they are still alive..that's a current conspiracy theory. I've also seen a young Jew who claims to know for a fact that the Halocaust never happened, and has "evidence" countering the memories of those there. He had a show on PBS. See if you can find the episode of the Penn and Teller Show "Bullshit!" about conspiracy theories, it was interesting. All c.t's really do is continue to hurt those whose lives have already been victimized. I have yet to see one actually help make things better and in my opinion I simply think they are a waste of time and energy.

A bit calmer...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 8th Aug 2005
*nods to pele and says 'aye'

I understand everyone's (non -US) sentiments about Bush, and the commercialization and shittiness of the possible Hollywoodization of 9/11.

Trust me, I loathe all of that as well.

But don't clump the rest of us Americans in with that lot.

Thanks.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire