Forums > Social Discussion > Thoughts on vegetarianism
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
oh man, we've been here before over and over (and over) again in this thread...
yes: the most beautiful people I know are all vegetarians and vegans too
try looking at somebody on a McDonalds diet, that's bad.
listen to you: "how to treat our food".
of course you meant to say "how to treat our fellow sentient beings"?
nuff said.
.
Written by: darkpoet
.....if we start getting a breed of people w\o incisors...then ill be a vegitarian...look at our teeth...were supposed to eat meat!
oh man, we've been here before over and over (and over) again in this thread...
Written by: darkpoet
and have you ever seen a healthy looking vegitarian??
yes: the most beautiful people I know are all vegetarians and vegans too
try looking at somebody on a McDonalds diet, that's bad.
Written by: darkpoet
yeah....im all for equal treatment of animals...but personally...we need to fix the ecosystem we screwed up so royally first...then worry about how to treat our food...
listen to you: "how to treat our food".
of course you meant to say "how to treat our fellow sentient beings"?
nuff said..
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Too right
Darkpoet and MrMoose, every point you raise has been, without exception, well covered in previous pages- if you're interested in knowing what vegetarians think about those points it would be well worth reading the previous parts of the thread.
Written by: 'pOp'
oh man, we've been here before over and over (and over) again in this thread...
Too right
Darkpoet and MrMoose, every point you raise has been, without exception, well covered in previous pages- if you're interested in knowing what vegetarians think about those points it would be well worth reading the previous parts of the thread.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
ooh ooh ooh, ehrm, because i gave such a half baked answer before and now I thought of some body famous:
the answer would be: ALICIA SILVERSTONE!!!
and: Anna Paquin, Dustin Hoffman, Eddie Vedder, Erykah Badu, Jerry Seinfeld, Kim Basinger, Liv Tyler, Michael J.Fox, Natalie Portman, Pamela Anderson, Richard Gere, Shania Twain and Tea Leoni amongst many, many others...
ooh ooh ooh, ehrm, because i gave such a half baked answer before and now I thought of some body famous:
Written by: darkpoet
and have you ever seen a healthy looking vegitarian??
no!
the answer would be: ALICIA SILVERSTONE!!!
and: Anna Paquin, Dustin Hoffman, Eddie Vedder, Erykah Badu, Jerry Seinfeld, Kim Basinger, Liv Tyler, Michael J.Fox, Natalie Portman, Pamela Anderson, Richard Gere, Shania Twain and Tea Leoni amongst many, many others...
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
i almost took offence to that statement..... but darkpoet has clearly demonstrated his own ignorance by not even bothering to read the rest of the thread.....
eric, i was interested in your list of famous veggies and found this. anyone interested in having a quick look may note the number of olympic athletes listed, which proves that meat is not necessary for a tip top physical condition.
Written by: darkpoet
and have you ever seen a healthy looking vegitarian??
no! theyre all anemic and a slate clammy gray colour
i almost took offence to that statement..... but darkpoet has clearly demonstrated his own ignorance by not even bothering to read the rest of the thread.....
eric, i was interested in your list of famous veggies and found this. anyone interested in having a quick look may note the number of olympic athletes listed, which proves that meat is not necessary for a tip top physical condition.
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
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Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
And i think you look great Faberge, you dont look a day over 35
*edited for fear of getting eyes clawed out. Faberge is not 35 and looks about 27*
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1095241419)
And i think you look great Faberge, you dont look a day over 35
*edited for fear of getting eyes clawed out. Faberge is not 35 and looks about 27*
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1095241419)
Love is the law.
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Playing OldSchool Poi
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Playing OldSchool Poi
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Posted:
I KNOW!!!!!!
my first reaction to that remark was "me". (but I edited it out as well)
and as an adition to what ado-p said: I am 36, but nobody ever guesses my age to be over 27, usually 24/26.
so maybe we found a new thing here:
"vegetarians look younger (healthier) than carnivores..."
now try that one on for size
.
Written by: Fabergé
i almost took offence to that statement..... but darkpoet has clearly demonstrated his own ignorance by not even bothering to read the rest of the thread.....
I KNOW!!!!!!
my first reaction to that remark was "me". (but I edited it out as well)
and as an adition to what ado-p said: I am 36, but nobody ever guesses my age to be over 27, usually 24/26.
so maybe we found a new thing here:
"vegetarians look younger (healthier) than carnivores..."
now try that one on for size
.
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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veteran
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
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1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
at aidan's edit
i might make a voodoo doll and stick pins in it but i would never scratch your eyes out
at aidan's editi might make a voodoo doll and stick pins in it but i would never scratch your eyes out
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
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Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
not true, i am young, look younger and extremely good looking
Written by: Fabergé
i might make a voodoo doll and stick pins in it but i would never scratch your eyes out
not true, i am young, look younger and extremely good looking
Love is the law.
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Posted:
eric, me too! i'm 34 and no-one ever thinks it.
though i've often wondered if that's coz i actually look younger, or if it's coz i hang out at parties with 20-something year olds swinging great big balls of fire around my head, while most of my mates are at home minding their kids
eric, me too! i'm 34 and no-one ever thinks it.
though i've often wondered if that's coz i actually look younger, or if it's coz i hang out at parties with 20-something year olds swinging great big balls of fire around my head, while most of my mates are at home minding their kids
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
enthusiast
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
456 posts
Location: Hoboken, New Jersey, USA
Posted:
pOp, while I agree with your general statement, Michael J. Fox doesn't actually look that healthy these days...for unrelated reasons, to be sure.
BTW, I'm 45 and am frequently mistaken for 44...seriously, people usually think early to mid 30s. In addition to having been a vegetarian since 1978, I stay the heck out of the sun.
pOp, while I agree with your general statement, Michael J. Fox doesn't actually look that healthy these days...for unrelated reasons, to be sure.
BTW, I'm 45 and am frequently mistaken for 44...seriously, people usually think early to mid 30s. In addition to having been a vegetarian since 1978, I stay the heck out of the sun.
"If you didn't like something the first time, the cud won't be any good either." --Elsie the Cow, Ruminations
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Well it's true that we have discussed this one ad- nausea, but everyone is entitled to an opinion.
pOp, perhaps you can explain the difference between famous vegetarians and healthy vegetarians???
It was listing to a discussion on this very subject at morning tea the other day, and it was interesting to hear that some people considered vegetarians to be a rather "grumpy" lot because they missed out on some vital "nutrient" or sumthing due to diet. I hadn't hear that before, so I was wondering if there was any truth to the story, or it was another urban myth?
Oops, I should have read all the post, as I wasn't going to mention actors names.
I suppose another thing is that while rock stars aren't known for their healthy lifestyle, many look amazingly young. I'm told this is because they work at night, and see little sun.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1095392917)
Well it's true that we have discussed this one ad- nausea, but everyone is entitled to an opinion.
pOp, perhaps you can explain the difference between famous vegetarians and healthy vegetarians???
It was listing to a discussion on this very subject at morning tea the other day, and it was interesting to hear that some people considered vegetarians to be a rather "grumpy" lot because they missed out on some vital "nutrient" or sumthing due to diet. I hadn't hear that before, so I was wondering if there was any truth to the story, or it was another urban myth?
Oops, I should have read all the post, as I wasn't going to mention actors names.
I suppose another thing is that while rock stars aren't known for their healthy lifestyle, many look amazingly young. I'm told this is because they work at night, and see little sun.
EDITED_BY: Stone (1095392917)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Playing OldSchool Poi
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Playing OldSchool Poi
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Posted:
no, I can't explain, because that wasn't my point.
the point I was trying to make is that people might be ignorant about how a vegetarian looks. you might know more (healthy looking) vegetarians than you would realize... and with naming famous vegetarians I was trying to prove that you can't see on the outside that somebody eats no meat.
about the sunlight: not seeing sunlight will make you grumpy: just talk to anybody who lives really north or really south with days in winter without sunlight. or come to think of it: don't we all get grumpier in winter and more cheerful in summer? we need the vitamins that sun light will give us.
but yeah, extensive exposure to unscreened sunlight (by lack of ozone layer) and sunburn will age your skin faster.
oh, and not eating vegetables will make you depressed, just go watch "super size me"
and I look extremely young this year, since we had the worst summer in holland since 1955!!!
no, I can't explain, because that wasn't my point.the point I was trying to make is that people might be ignorant about how a vegetarian looks. you might know more (healthy looking) vegetarians than you would realize... and with naming famous vegetarians I was trying to prove that you can't see on the outside that somebody eats no meat.
about the sunlight: not seeing sunlight will make you grumpy: just talk to anybody who lives really north or really south with days in winter without sunlight. or come to think of it: don't we all get grumpier in winter and more cheerful in summer? we need the vitamins that sun light will give us.but yeah, extensive exposure to unscreened sunlight (by lack of ozone layer) and sunburn will age your skin faster.
oh, and not eating vegetables will make you depressed, just go watch "super size me" and I look extremely young this year, since we had the worst summer in holland since 1955!!! eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Wooh! Go vegetarians!
I can get all my nutrition from fruit, vegetables and substitutes, and nothing has to die as a consequence of a matter of taste on my part. I have nothing against people eating meat, it's just not for me.
I don't like to think of people doing things for me that I wouldn't do myself, and I couldn't kill a cow or a pig unless I really had to. And I don't have to.
Besides, veggieburgers are nicer.
(See? I'm not grumpy. I'm karmically alligned)
Has anyone read the book "Power Within The Land"? I'm reading it now, and it's very good. It's about accepting the fact that you are part of the planet, not some incredible individual being who can exist without the earth's sustenance. We're all part of one big organism, and humans have done more harm to that organism than they have good.
Vegetarianism is one way of renewing a balance. I wonder if any meat-eaters out there have visited an abbatoir? It might change your opinions on the possibility of liking animals and justifying eating meat.
Not that I have. But then I didn't need to.
Forgive me. I drove 300 miles today. My brain is flash-fried.
Wooh! Go vegetarians!
I can get all my nutrition from fruit, vegetables and substitutes, and nothing has to die as a consequence of a matter of taste on my part. I have nothing against people eating meat, it's just not for me.
I don't like to think of people doing things for me that I wouldn't do myself, and I couldn't kill a cow or a pig unless I really had to. And I don't have to.
Besides, veggieburgers are nicer.
(See? I'm not grumpy. I'm karmically alligned)
Has anyone read the book "Power Within The Land"? I'm reading it now, and it's very good. It's about accepting the fact that you are part of the planet, not some incredible individual being who can exist without the earth's sustenance. We're all part of one big organism, and humans have done more harm to that organism than they have good.
Vegetarianism is one way of renewing a balance. I wonder if any meat-eaters out there have visited an abbatoir? It might change your opinions on the possibility of liking animals and justifying eating meat.
Not that I have. But then I didn't need to.
Forgive me. I drove 300 miles today. My brain is flash-fried.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
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Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi, nearly all gone, I have nothing against people eating plants
Just a few minor points on what u said:
I cringe when I hear about substitutes. I prefer the real thing.
And plants do die for your taste. It’s true plants aren’t cuddly, but they are alive before they are killed for your food. Genetically, there’s not that much difference b/t a wheat plant and a chicken.
pOp, wots size got to do with depression???
Hi, nearly all gone, I have nothing against people eating plants
Just a few minor points on what u said:
Written by:
I can get all my nutrition from fruit, vegetables and substitutes, and nothing has to die as a consequence of a matter of taste on my part. I have nothing against people eating meat, it's just not for me.
I cringe when I hear about substitutes. I prefer the real thing.
And plants do die for your taste. It’s true plants aren’t cuddly, but they are alive before they are killed for your food. Genetically, there’s not that much difference b/t a wheat plant and a chicken.
pOp, wots size got to do with depression???
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm not sure that substitutes is a good word, it makes it sound that if you're not eating meat you're somehow lacking (nutrition or taste) whereas I think most vegetarians would agree that vegetarian food is way tastier (and healthier) than meat based food.
Written by: nearly_all_gone
Wooh! Go vegetarians!
I can get all my nutrition from fruit, vegetables and substitutes, and nothing has to die as a consequence of a matter of taste on my part.
I'm not sure that substitutes is a good word, it makes it sound that if you're not eating meat you're somehow lacking (nutrition or taste) whereas I think most vegetarians would agree that vegetarian food is way tastier (and healthier) than meat based food.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
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Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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Posted:
Im jumping in on this coversation cos I only just noticed it so obviously I've missed a fair bit so maybe this has already been said, however, I have no probs with vegys but I'd like to point out that just by giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry
Im jumping in on this coversation cos I only just noticed it so obviously I've missed a fair bit so maybe this has already been said, however, I have no probs with vegys but I'd like to point out that just by giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry
AAARRRGGGHHH!!! My giant stick broke!!! In two!!! My stick broke in two!!! 
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Playing OldSchool Poi
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Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
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Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
well, other men get depressed when they find out the size of my nuts...
eh?, oh no, sorry, different subject, ehrm... just ignore that.
ok: what I think I said was: "go watch the movie "Super Size Me" to see how a lack of a nutricious diet (read: lack of vegetables) can cause depression"
you misquoted me, I believe.
[ edit: ] Wow! what a strange post to be my 100th post.... (
party!!!)
.
EDITED_BY: 'pOp' (1095764014)
Written by: Stone
pOp, wots size got to do with depression???
well, other men get depressed when they find out the size of my nuts...
eh?, oh no, sorry, different subject, ehrm... just ignore that.ok: what I think I said was: "go watch the movie "Super Size Me" to see how a lack of a nutricious diet (read: lack of vegetables) can cause depression"
you misquoted me, I believe.
[ edit: ] Wow! what a strange post to be my 100th post.... (
party!!!).
EDITED_BY: 'pOp' (1095764014)
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
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Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
Of course they would, but isnt that just a little biast and a little subjective even....
Written by: onewheeldave
I think most vegetarians would agree that vegetarian food is way tastier (and healthier) than meat based food.
Of course they would, but isnt that just a little biast and a little subjective even....
Love is the law.
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Posted:
i don't think so.
since i gave up on meat & eggs i've learned to experiment more with cooking. using different herbs & spices, lots of other ingredients that your average "meat, potatoe & 2 veg" eaters normally wouldn't dream of.
also, i try not to buy/eat processed foods, so when i make a meal it's from scratch, nothing out of jars or packets.
i have friends & family over for dinner regularly and always cook vegetarian. even the carnivores asked me for recipes from time to time
i don't think so.
since i gave up on meat & eggs i've learned to experiment more with cooking. using different herbs & spices, lots of other ingredients that your average "meat, potatoe & 2 veg" eaters normally wouldn't dream of.
also, i try not to buy/eat processed foods, so when i make a meal it's from scratch, nothing out of jars or packets.
i have friends & family over for dinner regularly and always cook vegetarian. even the carnivores asked me for recipes from time to time
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
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Pirate Ninja
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Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
I still dont agree, I am anything but an average, read: stereotypical 'Meat n Two Veg' guy.
I've been to countries where meat is added to dishes for flavour not content....
I'm not knocking veggie food, all im saying is that you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy/cook good food. And you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy veggie food
I still dont agree, I am anything but an average, read: stereotypical 'Meat n Two Veg' guy.
I've been to countries where meat is added to dishes for flavour not content....
I'm not knocking veggie food, all im saying is that you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy/cook good food. And you dont have to be a veggie to enjoy veggie food
Love is the law.
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Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
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Location: Wales
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales
Posted:
Why on earth do people fight so much about this topic?
I don't eat meat. It's my choice. I also don't eat Aubugines or swede but I don't find people arguing with me about that. It's just a personal choice.
Lets just let people choose if the do or don't wish to eat meat and leave it at that.
Why on earth do people fight so much about this topic?
I don't eat meat. It's my choice. I also don't eat Aubugines or swede but I don't find people arguing with me about that. It's just a personal choice.
Lets just let people choose if the do or don't wish to eat meat and leave it at that.
Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!
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Pirate Ninja
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Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
Hey Skul
Its never really occured to me to argue with someone over choice..... veggie do veggie dont, tis all the same to me,
but flavour... now thats a whole different kettle of fish (or kittens if you dont like fish)
personally i dont like cucumber but its down to genetics and not choice and so i feel robbed....
I must admit though, Argueing about flavour, like i said above, is completly based on opinion, thus any debate is immediatley rendered fruitless (or meatless if you dont like fruit).
I would suggest organising a picnic. (no cucumber sandwhich's for me please).
Would anyone like an apple?
/edit/
yes, i am aware that there is a contradiction above, but it still makes sense if you replace opinion with personal taste
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1095766659)
Hey Skul
Its never really occured to me to argue with someone over choice..... veggie do veggie dont, tis all the same to me,
but flavour... now thats a whole different kettle of fish (or kittens if you dont like fish)
personally i dont like cucumber but its down to genetics and not choice and so i feel robbed....
I must admit though, Argueing about flavour, like i said above, is completly based on opinion, thus any debate is immediatley rendered fruitless (or meatless if you dont like fruit).
I would suggest organising a picnic. (no cucumber sandwhich's for me please).
Would anyone like an apple?
/edit/
yes, i am aware that there is a contradiction above, but it still makes sense if you replace opinion with personal taste
EDITED_BY: ado-p (1095766659)
Love is the law.
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Posted:
you don't eat aubergines? shame on you!!
we're not fighting any more, honestly. that was all a few pages back
then there'd be no point to having a thread called "Thoughts on Vegetarianism" in the Discussion Forum
you don't eat aubergines? shame on you!!
Written by: Skulduggery
Why on earth do people fight so much about this topic?
we're not fighting any more, honestly. that was all a few pages back
Written by: Skulduggery
Lets just let people choose if the do or don't wish to eat meat and leave it at that.
then there'd be no point to having a thread called "Thoughts on Vegetarianism" in the Discussion Forum
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
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Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
The point I was wanting to make is that I suspect that a lot of meat eaters believe that, for example, veggie burgers are a inferior and bad tasting alternative to meat burgers. That vegetarians are sacrificing taste for moral principles/are depriving themselves.
Whereas the truth is that most vegetarians actually prefer the taste of their veggie burgers to meat burgers.
The point I was wanting to make is that I suspect that a lot of meat eaters believe that, for example, veggie burgers are a inferior and bad tasting alternative to meat burgers. That vegetarians are sacrificing taste for moral principles/are depriving themselves.
Whereas the truth is that most vegetarians actually prefer the taste of their veggie burgers to meat burgers.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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Pirate Ninja
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Pirate Ninja
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Posted:
Dave
I prefer veggie burgers to normal burgers.... but only the birdseye ones....
I see your point though.... maybe the great unwashed do see veggies as being somehow deficiant. Personally I would suggest its much more likley that they find them intimidating. Sub conciously labelling them as silently (and sometimes not so silently) claiming the moral high ground.
Sadly as with alot of things, people seem to lose respect instead of gaining it when making alternative personal choices.
Dave
I prefer veggie burgers to normal burgers.... but only the birdseye ones....
I see your point though.... maybe the great unwashed do see veggies as being somehow deficiant. Personally I would suggest its much more likley that they find them intimidating. Sub conciously labelling them as silently (and sometimes not so silently) claiming the moral high ground.
Sadly as with alot of things, people seem to lose respect instead of gaining it when making alternative personal choices.
Love is the law.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
As I know, no one has brought that point up yet.
You'll have to elaborate on what you're saying; intuitively it would seem to me that if no one ate meat, then meat production would have to stop- surely companies aren't going to continue to produce a product that no one will buy?
Written by: Flame Boy
Im jumping in on this coversation cos I only just noticed it so obviously I've missed a fair bit so maybe this has already been said, however, I have no probs with vegys but I'd like to point out that just by giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry
As I know, no one has brought that point up yet.
You'll have to elaborate on what you're saying; intuitively it would seem to me that if no one ate meat, then meat production would have to stop- surely companies aren't going to continue to produce a product that no one will buy?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
My two cents here
Cattle/Chickens/Pigs etc.. They dont breed, they are bred.
Flameboy, therein lies an answer and a solution.
Written by: Flame Boy
giving up meat is not going to decrease the number of animals that are killed; in fact I doubt if even the whole vegy population has had much of an impact on the meat industry
My two cents here
Cattle/Chickens/Pigs etc.. They dont breed, they are bred.
Flameboy, therein lies an answer and a solution.
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I personally think that if the choice is between killing an animal and not killing an animal but still surviving in just as good a way (often with better tasting stuff, as I see lots of people think), then not killing is a priori the better option. I think "substitute" becomes a good word when you think of the alternative.. abbatoir.
But a wheat plant is a lot further away from me in terms of consciousness and an experience of existance. Take chickens, for example, or any other form of animal life. They have rudimentary consciousness, they feel fear and pain (maybe as a result of instinct or as a survivalistic reflex, but it still exists for them) and through this I believe they feel discomfort. The conditions they're kept in is shocking, and I can't justify supporting a trade which does that by my dietary choices. I also can't justify eating the flesh of a being that has died unpleasantly, or support conscious life being bred in order to die. Plants are beautiful but their regenerative capabilities are far greater. And their seed-bearing capacities mean their DNA is passed on in virtually unchanged form, so if you look at them as a type of life, I think the same life can continue for generations of plant, maybe even the whole cycle of seed-to-plant for the thousands of years it continues.
Back to animals though. Philosophers have argued that these reflex survival actions do not mean intelligence or consciousness, but that we merely recognise their reactions in our own behaviour and sympathise with things that aren't even there. But I think that you can explain most human beahviour as a kind of survivalistic reflex, however remote and complex it is. I'm sitting here discussing this issue on the internet because of a communal instinct in me which tells me to talk to other people, to communicate, so I could pass messages of danger or recieve warnings, and so that I feel close to people so I can have support from them which in some situations could result in my survival. It's complicated but I can think of virtually no human situation that couldn't be explained in this way. So really, what difference is there between their less complex reflexes and my own?
I don't think that plants have this experience of life. They naturally bear fruit and seeds. If I could nourish people by feeding them my seed (mm, nice image there) then I would. Hey, anyone want some seed? You could put it in a sandwich. But it wouldn't be vegetarian friendly... or would it? Nothing dies in its production...
I might just leave that...
Interesting thoughts though Stone!
Written by: Stone
I cringe when I hear about substitutes. I prefer the real thing.
I personally think that if the choice is between killing an animal and not killing an animal but still surviving in just as good a way (often with better tasting stuff, as I see lots of people think), then not killing is a priori the better option. I think "substitute" becomes a good word when you think of the alternative.. abbatoir.
Written by: Stone
And plants do die for your taste. It’s true plants aren’t cuddly, but they are alive before they are killed for your food. Genetically, there’s not that much difference b/t a wheat plant and a chicken.
But a wheat plant is a lot further away from me in terms of consciousness and an experience of existance. Take chickens, for example, or any other form of animal life. They have rudimentary consciousness, they feel fear and pain (maybe as a result of instinct or as a survivalistic reflex, but it still exists for them) and through this I believe they feel discomfort. The conditions they're kept in is shocking, and I can't justify supporting a trade which does that by my dietary choices. I also can't justify eating the flesh of a being that has died unpleasantly, or support conscious life being bred in order to die. Plants are beautiful but their regenerative capabilities are far greater. And their seed-bearing capacities mean their DNA is passed on in virtually unchanged form, so if you look at them as a type of life, I think the same life can continue for generations of plant, maybe even the whole cycle of seed-to-plant for the thousands of years it continues.
Back to animals though. Philosophers have argued that these reflex survival actions do not mean intelligence or consciousness, but that we merely recognise their reactions in our own behaviour and sympathise with things that aren't even there. But I think that you can explain most human beahviour as a kind of survivalistic reflex, however remote and complex it is. I'm sitting here discussing this issue on the internet because of a communal instinct in me which tells me to talk to other people, to communicate, so I could pass messages of danger or recieve warnings, and so that I feel close to people so I can have support from them which in some situations could result in my survival. It's complicated but I can think of virtually no human situation that couldn't be explained in this way. So really, what difference is there between their less complex reflexes and my own?
I don't think that plants have this experience of life. They naturally bear fruit and seeds. If I could nourish people by feeding them my seed (mm, nice image there) then I would. Hey, anyone want some seed? You could put it in a sandwich. But it wouldn't be vegetarian friendly... or would it? Nothing dies in its production...
I might just leave that...
Interesting thoughts though Stone!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
But unfortunatley, the human body is still adapted to gain sustenance from meat. There isn't a better source of protein, and it's a really good source of iron and stuff... I think that really, the human body does need meat. But that you can also get substitutes for this need which are just as good. But the purpose they serve is one of substitution, because they replace something which humans have evolved to eat.
Give it a few hundred thousand years. Our teeth will be the shape of can openers
Written by: onewheeldave
I'm not sure that substitutes is a good word, it makes it sound that if you're not eating meat you're somehow lacking (nutrition or taste) whereas I think most vegetarians would agree that vegetarian food is way tastier (and healthier) than meat based food.
But unfortunatley, the human body is still adapted to gain sustenance from meat. There isn't a better source of protein, and it's a really good source of iron and stuff... I think that really, the human body does need meat. But that you can also get substitutes for this need which are just as good. But the purpose they serve is one of substitution, because they replace something which humans have evolved to eat.
Give it a few hundred thousand years. Our teeth will be the shape of can openers
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
"if i jump in the fire, will you?"
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
633 posts
Location: USA, wishing I was in SA
Posted:
well ...honestly , i dont think that its about saving animals , hear me out ... just think about the number of people that are becomming of age to eat meat. all those little children that are subject to eating what their parents put in front of them . now considder the amount of people that are converting to veggies. now i dont know what the ratio would be ... new little meat eaters/converting veggies(???) but the population ratio would tell me that the meat eaters are out weighing the converters.
i dont much , i just put a bit of thinking into it and found this one conclusion.
well ...honestly , i dont think that its about saving animals , hear me out ... just think about the number of people that are becomming of age to eat meat. all those little children that are subject to eating what their parents put in front of them . now considder the amount of people that are converting to veggies. now i dont know what the ratio would be ... new little meat eaters/converting veggies(???) but the population ratio would tell me that the meat eaters are out weighing the converters.
i dont much , i just put a bit of thinking into it and found this one conclusion.
i like breaking the Law 
, of Gravity !
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