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Forums > Social Chat > Court Rules Clubs Must Allow Ravers To Bring Their Silly Crap
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184 posts
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
184 posts
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
Posted:
https://www.audiogalaxy.com/articles/index.php?a=209&I
seem to remember a few people talking about this a while back. Seems they have reached a descision.
https://www.audiogalaxy.com/articles/index.php?a=209&I
seem to remember a few people talking about this a while back. Seems they have reached a descision.
I smell something burning.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Two things:How are glowsticks drug paraphenalia anyway?"Threatened rave culture"? Like the Siberian Tiger is threatened? I thought this was funny. Most partiers I know never felt it to be threatened, their drugs use yes, their parties no. They just felt the party scene would go back underground, and in fact many have said they would prefer it that way. Much like the punk scene, it won't go away, it will just not be so visible!
Nice finding! I have been waiting for the verdict so I can finish my article on raves and parties of the like.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com
Two things:How are glowsticks drug paraphenalia anyway?"Threatened rave culture"? Like the Siberian Tiger is threatened? I thought this was funny. Most partiers I know never felt it to be threatened, their drugs use yes, their parties no. They just felt the party scene would go back underground, and in fact many have said they would prefer it that way. Much like the punk scene, it won't go away, it will just not be so visible!
Nice finding! I have been waiting for the verdict so I can finish my article on raves and parties of the like.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
oooo, someone is twirling glowsticks, they must obviousely be on drugs....NOT! Its about damn time they woke up and smelled the coffee. Drugs kill people, not glowsticks....OK, OK, OK... glowsticks wound, but they don't kill.
FREEDOM!!!
oooo, someone is twirling glowsticks, they must obviousely be on drugs....NOT! Its about damn time they woke up and smelled the coffee. Drugs kill people, not glowsticks....OK, OK, OK... glowsticks wound, but they don't kill.
FREEDOM!!! we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
member
195 posts
195 posts
Posted:
Just to let you know, we do feel extremely threatened. I can't count how many parties have been called off because the DEA or local Law enforcement called the property owners and threatened to confiscate their property if they allowed the event to continue. While it might not seem just, and the gov't might not actually get away with it, it costs a ton of money to defend yourself against a civil forfeiture action by law enforcement. The laws they use to 'steal' people's property are loosely based on Britian's system of putting the burden of proof on the property owner to show beyond a reasonable doubt that their property was NOT used in the commission of a crime. The "innocent until proven guilty" thing doesn't apply to property (civil), only criminal proceedings. It's extremely costly to defend yourself in such a manor, resulting in people's defense bills usually out-valuing the property, hence, if you're charged with something like this, you might as well roll over and say good bye to whatever it was that was taken from you. Also, our civil forfeiture laws don't require criminal charges to be filed before confiscating property, therefore, and inproportionate number of confiscations to criminal proceedings results. Once property owners are aware of this (being informed by the police, in a very underhanded manor) they usually back out of any contracts that were in place. I know of at LEAST a dozen such instances that led to a party's cancelation.This also brings me to another point why drugs are illegal. The POLICE get to keep what they confiscate, making it very appealing to continue the current trends. I recall a story of a mid-west state that passed a law that mandated that state police that confiscate property are required give the proceedings to further education in their poor state. Rather than doing this, the local/state police now just call in the DEA to make the bust. The DEA takes 10% as a processing fee, and give the rest to the local/state police, thus circumventing the law. Dirty things happen all the time. It's our way.... peacetone
Just to let you know, we do feel extremely threatened. I can't count how many parties have been called off because the DEA or local Law enforcement called the property owners and threatened to confiscate their property if they allowed the event to continue. While it might not seem just, and the gov't might not actually get away with it, it costs a ton of money to defend yourself against a civil forfeiture action by law enforcement. The laws they use to 'steal' people's property are loosely based on Britian's system of putting the burden of proof on the property owner to show beyond a reasonable doubt that their property was NOT used in the commission of a crime. The "innocent until proven guilty" thing doesn't apply to property (civil), only criminal proceedings. It's extremely costly to defend yourself in such a manor, resulting in people's defense bills usually out-valuing the property, hence, if you're charged with something like this, you might as well roll over and say good bye to whatever it was that was taken from you. Also, our civil forfeiture laws don't require criminal charges to be filed before confiscating property, therefore, and inproportionate number of confiscations to criminal proceedings results. Once property owners are aware of this (being informed by the police, in a very underhanded manor) they usually back out of any contracts that were in place. I know of at LEAST a dozen such instances that led to a party's cancelation.This also brings me to another point why drugs are illegal. The POLICE get to keep what they confiscate, making it very appealing to continue the current trends. I recall a story of a mid-west state that passed a law that mandated that state police that confiscate property are required give the proceedings to further education in their poor state. Rather than doing this, the local/state police now just call in the DEA to make the bust. The DEA takes 10% as a processing fee, and give the rest to the local/state police, thus circumventing the law. Dirty things happen all the time. It's our way.... peacetone
member
337 posts
Location: amsterdam..i wish
337 posts
Location: amsterdam..i wish
Posted:
very very well said tone...the government still today is taking the bust approach of the 1980's "crack house laws" to bust raves. which basically means that when there is suspician, not proff, yet suspician of illegal drug use or solicitation of drugs then the owner of the venue or property is held liable. this is outrageous because the owners usually have no controll whatsoever in the amount of drug use or drug solicitation that goes on in the venue. anywaysback on the subject..WOOO! HOOO! i knew that they would finally use one of those few brain cells that the gov. has stored away in those tiny little heads of theirs. hehe much love and party on wayne...or whatever...p.l.u.r.r.xtremravrBTW tone when we gonna get together again and spin...im gettin those moves ya showed me down pretty good!!! lol my face expressions are still the same though..lol
very very well said tone...the government still today is taking the bust approach of the 1980's "crack house laws" to bust raves. which basically means that when there is suspician, not proff, yet suspician of illegal drug use or solicitation of drugs then the owner of the venue or property is held liable. this is outrageous because the owners usually have no controll whatsoever in the amount of drug use or drug solicitation that goes on in the venue. anywaysback on the subject..WOOO! HOOO! i knew that they would finally use one of those few brain cells that the gov. has stored away in those tiny little heads of theirs. hehe much love and party on wayne...or whatever...p.l.u.r.r.xtremravrBTW tone when we gonna get together again and spin...im gettin those moves ya showed me down pretty good!!! lol my face expressions are still the same though..lol
Peace Luv Uni-t Respect Responsa-what?!?! Xtrem
SILVER Member
Do my poi look too small in this?
394 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Do my poi look too small in this?
394 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Pele,You're in New York.. New York is too big and overcrowded, and full of criminals of various sorts for the police to bother with ravers.I did hear that the George Washington bridge parties were under a little fire though, after someone got stabbed near it?Either way, from all my understandings, New York and San Fran are the only two places in the U.S. that are relatively free.
Pele,You're in New York.. New York is too big and overcrowded, and full of criminals of various sorts for the police to bother with ravers.I did hear that the George Washington bridge parties were under a little fire though, after someone got stabbed near it?Either way, from all my understandings, New York and San Fran are the only two places in the U.S. that are relatively free.
member
406 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
406 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. I hope you don't mind, shizNOT, but I am going to borrow the link to put on the rave thread that I have running right now.Pele, alot of party kids feel that way about pushing it back underground. I know that I wouldn't mind at all. It would throw a new spark into the mix for a while. However, the parties are actually being threatened. Here in Charlotte, we were recently targeted by a slew of proposed after hours bans and restrictions. The "rave ordinance" didn't pass, but immediately there was a push to outlaw music and dancing between the hours of 2AM and 7AM. Has anyone seen "Footloose?" Hellooooooooo! If you don't believe me, then ask anyone from Philly how bad a local law that strictly prohibits dancing and music after 2AM sucks. I was there at "Space" the night it took effect 2 and a half years ago. Policein riot gear literally stormed the place and pulled the plug on the music. I must say that I was proud as hell to be one of the people who danced the night away in the middle of Delaware Ave., the main street in Philly, in defiance.In fact, my club, which was just south of Charlotte, was shut down illegally by county sherrifs and zoning officials. They told us that it was illegal to dance. NO LIE. When I quoted building code to the sergeant in charge, he replied with a quaint "Fuck you! I'll cut off your power." And then he literally called the power company and had them do an emergency cut off. We moved everything to the parking lot, and they threatened to lock us up for inciting a riot. So we moved the party, and about 600 people to Angela and my land, where they couldn't follow. We came back the next day to find that the doors had been chained shut and signs marked "condemned."Yes, we are being threatened. It might end up being for the best in some people's eyes, but it is going to cause a LOT of damage in the process. Between Angela and I, we are physically out over $30,000 and counting as the machines we leased and rented are sitting untouched in the building. And that doesn't *even* begin to take into account the thousands of man-hours and blood, sweat, and tears that were poured into that place. Our stuff remained locked inside, until the owner came along and sold it all. And it will take years to sue and reclaim losses in the court system. Yes, we are very threatened.
------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---
This is the kind of stuff I am talking about. I hope you don't mind, shizNOT, but I am going to borrow the link to put on the rave thread that I have running right now.Pele, alot of party kids feel that way about pushing it back underground. I know that I wouldn't mind at all. It would throw a new spark into the mix for a while. However, the parties are actually being threatened. Here in Charlotte, we were recently targeted by a slew of proposed after hours bans and restrictions. The "rave ordinance" didn't pass, but immediately there was a push to outlaw music and dancing between the hours of 2AM and 7AM. Has anyone seen "Footloose?" Hellooooooooo! If you don't believe me, then ask anyone from Philly how bad a local law that strictly prohibits dancing and music after 2AM sucks. I was there at "Space" the night it took effect 2 and a half years ago. Policein riot gear literally stormed the place and pulled the plug on the music. I must say that I was proud as hell to be one of the people who danced the night away in the middle of Delaware Ave., the main street in Philly, in defiance.In fact, my club, which was just south of Charlotte, was shut down illegally by county sherrifs and zoning officials. They told us that it was illegal to dance. NO LIE. When I quoted building code to the sergeant in charge, he replied with a quaint "Fuck you! I'll cut off your power." And then he literally called the power company and had them do an emergency cut off. We moved everything to the parking lot, and they threatened to lock us up for inciting a riot. So we moved the party, and about 600 people to Angela and my land, where they couldn't follow. We came back the next day to find that the doors had been chained shut and signs marked "condemned."Yes, we are being threatened. It might end up being for the best in some people's eyes, but it is going to cause a LOT of damage in the process. Between Angela and I, we are physically out over $30,000 and counting as the machines we leased and rented are sitting untouched in the building. And that doesn't *even* begin to take into account the thousands of man-hours and blood, sweat, and tears that were poured into that place. Our stuff remained locked inside, until the owner came along and sold it all. And it will take years to sue and reclaim losses in the court system. Yes, we are very threatened.
------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J--- FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~
member
184 posts
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
184 posts
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
Posted:
Im sorry to hear about your club glowshow.Im confused about the talk of philly laws banning dancing after 2. I wanna say Eclipse. but I dont think thats right name. any way, they dont usually open til 11 or 12 at night. and they are open til 6. its at the end of deleware ave. a little past Maui. also, Im not SURE, but I dont think Pele is actually in NYC, just NY state.the club is Evolution (not Eclipse)https://www.digitalcity.com/philadelphia/bars/venue.adp?vid=30118[This message has been edited by shizN0T (edited 22 February 2002).]
Im sorry to hear about your club glowshow.Im confused about the talk of philly laws banning dancing after 2. I wanna say Eclipse. but I dont think thats right name. any way, they dont usually open til 11 or 12 at night. and they are open til 6. its at the end of deleware ave. a little past Maui. also, Im not SURE, but I dont think Pele is actually in NYC, just NY state.the club is Evolution (not Eclipse)https://www.digitalcity.com/philadelphia/bars/venue.adp?vid=30118[This message has been edited by shizN0T (edited 22 February 2002).]
I smell something burning.
member
195 posts
195 posts
Posted:
Dude, I'm so sorry. Have you contacted the ACLU for legal help? They generally take on cases pro bono with blatant (sometimes not so blatant, also) civil rights violations. The worse thing about it all, is they've effectively run you out of business because you couldn't pay the value of the equipment that was leased, tarnishing not only your status in the community, but with the banking institutions (and your personal credit). There is hope... somewhere.keep spinning!party on, xravrton
Dude, I'm so sorry. Have you contacted the ACLU for legal help? They generally take on cases pro bono with blatant (sometimes not so blatant, also) civil rights violations. The worse thing about it all, is they've effectively run you out of business because you couldn't pay the value of the equipment that was leased, tarnishing not only your status in the community, but with the banking institutions (and your personal credit). There is hope... somewhere.keep spinning!party on, xravr
ton member
406 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
406 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
It was 2 and 1/2 years ago. I believe it was overthrown rather quickly. This type of crap usually doesn't make it past city hall, but it passed in PA. I can't think of the organization, but I will repost when I remember. These people helped a lot with overturning the so called "Rave Ordinance" in Philly, and some other cities in the Southeast, including Charlotte, when we had the same fiasco happen to us early this year. Angela was asked to join them, but at the time, we were trying to hurry and open the club so our friends would have somewhere to go. (We were right across the state line in South Carolina, where there were no *official* laws.)Is Evolution new? I have been to Space and Shampoo. Partying in Philly is cool.Toneman, I will have to look into that, but we have been told that we won't be able to get much, if anything, out of the county. Apparently zoning laws are much like the Bible. They are completely open to interpretation, but the only person who is right is the authority. And even though we have all of the paperwork, they now say that we got incorrect copies. Go figure.And you are completely right about seizing property. They had the fire marshall condemn the building. And then they all but forced the owner to sell it for $250,000. It listed at the time we leased it for 2 *Million*! That is why he sold and burned all of our stuff. The only case we have right now is for treble discourse with him, and there is only 1 real estate lawyer in this area. So we wait...------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---
It was 2 and 1/2 years ago. I believe it was overthrown rather quickly. This type of crap usually doesn't make it past city hall, but it passed in PA. I can't think of the organization, but I will repost when I remember. These people helped a lot with overturning the so called "Rave Ordinance" in Philly, and some other cities in the Southeast, including Charlotte, when we had the same fiasco happen to us early this year. Angela was asked to join them, but at the time, we were trying to hurry and open the club so our friends would have somewhere to go. (We were right across the state line in South Carolina, where there were no *official* laws.)Is Evolution new? I have been to Space and Shampoo. Partying in Philly is cool.Toneman, I will have to look into that, but we have been told that we won't be able to get much, if anything, out of the county. Apparently zoning laws are much like the Bible. They are completely open to interpretation, but the only person who is right is the authority. And even though we have all of the paperwork, they now say that we got incorrect copies. Go figure.And you are completely right about seizing property. They had the fire marshall condemn the building. And then they all but forced the owner to sell it for $250,000. It listed at the time we leased it for 2 *Million*! That is why he sold and burned all of our stuff. The only case we have right now is for treble discourse with him, and there is only 1 real estate lawyer in this area. So we wait...------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---
FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Smokey Bowl....Ummmm....wrong version of New York. I am from the State of New York, city of Batavia, 7 hours away from NYC and alot closer to Canada than any other spot in the US! We have more cows than people and if I see them raving, then I *know* there was something funky on my pizza!
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com
Smokey Bowl....Ummmm....wrong version of New York. I am from the State of New York, city of Batavia, 7 hours away from NYC and alot closer to Canada than any other spot in the US! We have more cows than people and if I see them raving, then I *know* there was something funky on my pizza!
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...https://www.pyromorph.com Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
With all these instances of people thinking you're from NYC. I'm beginning to think some folks round these parts have Batavia blindness.
With all these instances of people thinking you're from NYC. I'm beginning to think some folks round these parts have Batavia blindness.
Meh
member
55 posts
Location: canastota, ny usa
55 posts
Location: canastota, ny usa
Posted:
pele..ive just come home from a backpacking trip in australia and europe..while i was out i was exposed to stick and poi...i love it..i seriously have never heard of it at all and i live in upstate ny...(a half hour east of syracuse) are there any fire shows or anything in this state? or maybe you know a good website? thanks....
pele..ive just come home from a backpacking trip in australia and europe..while i was out i was exposed to stick and poi...i love it..i seriously have never heard of it at all and i live in upstate ny...(a half hour east of syracuse) are there any fire shows or anything in this state? or maybe you know a good website? thanks....
excuse me, santa, have you seen half a bike?
SILVER Member
Do my poi look too small in this?
394 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Do my poi look too small in this?
394 posts
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
this website?Here's something I clipped from the papers today..Charlie don't surf, but Dubya don't dance!!
this website?
Here's something I clipped from the papers today..Charlie don't surf, but Dubya don't dance!! quote:
London Metro -GONE, it seems are the days of unsmiling Chinese leaders who were only seen staring stonyfaced at some ceremonial show of military might.Instead, the ebullient president Jiang Zemin provided the entertainment at a banquet - leaving visiting US counterpart George W. Bush looking like a party-pooper.He serenaded the US president with the Italian area O Sole Mio then hit the dancefloor, strutting his stuff to such American favourites as The Eyes of Texas Are Upon You and Moon River.Jiang was accompanied by three of America's leading ladies, Laura Bush, Condoleeza Rice and the wife of US ambassador Clark Randt.A more reticent Mr Bush, however declined to join in the dancefloor fun.White House spokesman Ari Fleisher said: "In order to avert an international incident of the highest order, President Bush showed judgment, discretion and valour and observed the dancing from the seated position: international incident avoided."
SILVER Member
member
135 posts
Location: England
member
135 posts
Location: England
Posted:
Some people are just stupid..Our University (Warwick) tried to ban glowsticks from all Union events, due to the supposed drugs connection.. they gave up because the Student Union ignored them..University security have stopped me and Drakien from practicing with tennis balls in the piazza on campus in the middle of the day.. the reason given was that "some people are not aware of their own personal space and may walk into us"!! We had only seen about 5 people walk past in half an hour! Plus in such a large space people tend not to walk straight into each other..But then they allow us do use fire poi in the same place at night if we're doing it for the Union! Not that I can see how that stops people walkiing into us!?Go figure..Tom
Some people are just stupid..Our University (Warwick) tried to ban glowsticks from all Union events, due to the supposed drugs connection.. they gave up because the Student Union ignored them..University security have stopped me and Drakien from practicing with tennis balls in the piazza on campus in the middle of the day.. the reason given was that "some people are not aware of their own personal space and may walk into us"!! We had only seen about 5 people walk past in half an hour! Plus in such a large space people tend not to walk straight into each other..But then they allow us do use fire poi in the same place at night if we're doing it for the Union! Not that I can see how that stops people walkiing into us!?Go figure..
Tom member
235 posts
Location: Calgary alberta Canada
235 posts
Location: Calgary alberta Canada
Posted:
ive never been to a rave..dotn even know where one would be here...i also think i turn into a pumpkin at 2 am
ive never been to a rave..dotn even know where one would be here...i also think i turn into a pumpkin at 2 am
Teach tolerance, not competition.
Send food, not bombs.
member
195 posts
195 posts
Posted:
Sorry, glow, from everything I have read and studied on, that's the way the civil forfeiture laws work. I would guess that it was used to take the club's property. I would be pretty pissed if someone took my property, and offered 1/4 of the value knowing if I didn't take it, I probably wouldn't get anything. Sounds like their actions were a good example of tranferrence (?). They got a pretty good reaming, and they couldn't do anything about it with the authorities, so they took out their frustration by selling/burning your stuff. I bet it made them feel a little better, but probably didn't make them feel as good as $1.5m would...I really am sorry about your situation. Another reason to change our stupid drug laws... I'll do some digging later, and see if I can find reference to the forfeiture laws in some articles.Peacetone
Sorry, glow, from everything I have read and studied on, that's the way the civil forfeiture laws work. I would guess that it was used to take the club's property. I would be pretty pissed if someone took my property, and offered 1/4 of the value knowing if I didn't take it, I probably wouldn't get anything. Sounds like their actions were a good example of tranferrence (?). They got a pretty good reaming, and they couldn't do anything about it with the authorities, so they took out their frustration by selling/burning your stuff. I bet it made them feel a little better, but probably didn't make them feel as good as $1.5m would...I really am sorry about your situation. Another reason to change our stupid drug laws... I'll do some digging later, and see if I can find reference to the forfeiture laws in some articles.Peacetone
member
11 posts
Location: Walnut Creek
11 posts
Location: Walnut Creek
Posted:
Yes i get to keep hitting myself in the back of the head with glowsticks! right on!
Yes i get to keep hitting myself in the back of the head with glowsticks! right on!
In order to create apple pie, you must first create the universe.
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