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Forums > Social Discussion > Fight against Draft-Dodging in Israel
Login/Join to ParticipatePLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
a couple of articles about it:
Barak says soldiers are israel's true heroes
draft dodger's reasons
High schools to help fight draft dodging?
Yitzhak Laor's view on this
now something that isnt in those articles:
Some of the methods suggested to fight draft dodging in Israel were to take voting rights away from draft dodgers, and not allowing them to get driver's licenses.
As someone who's planning on not serving in the army, I'm really angry at this. by doing that israel will lose any trace of democracy it has left, and basically it almost guarantees that people like Baruch Marzel and other radical-right parties would get a bigger percent of votes, while many liberal-left parties get close to none (many of them has very low representation in the knesset now, without draft dodgers they probably wont have any at all) so there would be even less balance between the left and right parties.
if these laws pass i'm moving out of this place... (anyone in england want to marry me?
)
a couple of articles about it:
Barak says soldiers are israel's true heroes
draft dodger's reasons
High schools to help fight draft dodging?
Yitzhak Laor's view on this
now something that isnt in those articles:
Some of the methods suggested to fight draft dodging in Israel were to take voting rights away from draft dodgers, and not allowing them to get driver's licenses.
As someone who's planning on not serving in the army, I'm really angry at this. by doing that israel will lose any trace of democracy it has left, and basically it almost guarantees that people like Baruch Marzel and other radical-right parties would get a bigger percent of votes, while many liberal-left parties get close to none (many of them has very low representation in the knesset now, without draft dodgers they probably wont have any at all) so there would be even less balance between the left and right parties.
if these laws pass i'm moving out of this place... (anyone in england want to marry me?
)BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
I met many guys when I was travelling, from Israel, who were just out of the army.
Some were quite badly affected by the experience and went travelling to drink and party as much as possible... others were angry that their early 20s had been stolen... One guy (who I think was about 24) had been forced to shoot at children...
Forced conscription is appalling, in my opinion... so best wishes in your mission to get out of it
I met many guys when I was travelling, from Israel, who were just out of the army.
Some were quite badly affected by the experience and went travelling to drink and party as much as possible... others were angry that their early 20s had been stolen... One guy (who I think was about 24) had been forced to shoot at children...
Forced conscription is appalling, in my opinion... so best wishes in your mission to get out of it
Getting to the other side 
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
The problem is deep-rooted in the Israeli dilemma and as complex as it is simple:
You have to (at some stage) come to a peaceful solution and this by democratic means - or move. Is it still that you could move to the US (with an Israeli passport)?
Well it might not be the best alternative of all, but hey at least they would shoot you just because they think you're an Arab, not because of being a Jew (if that helps)
Sarcasm set aside: If you feel like not joining the army, you have to follow your heart, despite all the obstacles. Not being legible to vote or to drive a car might be a temporary problem - shooting ppl and children will haunt you your entire life....
The problem is deep-rooted in the Israeli dilemma and as complex as it is simple:
You have to (at some stage) come to a peaceful solution and this by democratic means - or move. Is it still that you could move to the US (with an Israeli passport)?
Well it might not be the best alternative of all, but hey at least they would shoot you just because they think you're an Arab, not because of being a Jew (if that helps)
Sarcasm set aside: If you feel like not joining the army, you have to follow your heart, despite all the obstacles. Not being legible to vote or to drive a car might be a temporary problem - shooting ppl and children will haunt you your entire life....
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Well you're quite cute and I'd offer to let you marry me.
Unfortunately, I'm roughly half your age and we can't legally marry here.
Besides, draconian draft rules or not, I still think Israel is a freer society than the U.S.
Well you're quite cute and I'd offer to let you marry me.
Unfortunately, I'm roughly half your age and we can't legally marry here.
Besides, draconian draft rules or not, I still think Israel is a freer society than the U.S.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
That should read "double", or is this the 8yr Doc junior signing up under his screen name?
And there are states in the US where the "age of consent" would be 14, no? Oh, but these are the states where "same sex marriage" is still illegal, no? 
Written by: Doc Lightning
Well you're quite cute and I'd offer to let you marry me.
Unfortunately, I'm roughly half your age and we can't legally marry here.
Besides, draconian draft rules or not, I still think Israel is a freer society than the U.S.
That should read "double", or is this the 8yr Doc junior signing up under his screen name?
And there are states in the US where the "age of consent" would be 14, no? Oh, but these are the states where "same sex marriage" is still illegal, no? the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I've travelled a bit in Israel and met some guys who were planning to dodge the draft by claiming they were crazy. Unfortunately, some of them ended up going because they said they'd not be able to get a good job if they hadn't served.
As someone who has witnessed drunk soldiers with guns in clubs (because they have to carry the guns wherever they go), or guys in Yad Vashem wearing shorts, a girlfriend on the arm, and a gun over the other shoulder, thinking it was the most normal thing in the world to carry a weapon into a building like that, I wish you all the luck in managing to dodge your draft and make a change.
I've travelled a bit in Israel and met some guys who were planning to dodge the draft by claiming they were crazy. Unfortunately, some of them ended up going because they said they'd not be able to get a good job if they hadn't served.
As someone who has witnessed drunk soldiers with guns in clubs (because they have to carry the guns wherever they go), or guys in Yad Vashem wearing shorts, a girlfriend on the arm, and a gun over the other shoulder, thinking it was the most normal thing in the world to carry a weapon into a building like that, I wish you all the luck in managing to dodge your draft and make a change.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
look out for shin bet
look out for shin bet
BRONZE Member
One day penguins will take over the world
916 posts
Location: Derby, United Kingdom
One day penguins will take over the world
916 posts
Location: Derby, United Kingdom
Posted:
i've got a bit of knowledge about the army, although not the israeli army, since my dad was in the army and i got to see what most other people never did. i'm totally against conscription (i'm anti military altogether, but whatever) but it seems to me that by doing this the government is losing the support of the people they need on their side, the general public.
i'm not going to pretend that i know everything about this topic, because i don't, but in my opinion the israeli government should set themselves up for a hell of a lot of trouble if they do use those methods to tackle dodge drafting.
i've got a bit of knowledge about the army, although not the israeli army, since my dad was in the army and i got to see what most other people never did. i'm totally against conscription (i'm anti military altogether, but whatever) but it seems to me that by doing this the government is losing the support of the people they need on their side, the general public.
i'm not going to pretend that i know everything about this topic, because i don't, but in my opinion the israeli government should set themselves up for a hell of a lot of trouble if they do use those methods to tackle dodge drafting.
ummmm...........anybody have any suggestions as to what i can put here?!
mjk is monitoring your interwebs!
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
I dont think they'll lose support by the general public, a lot of israelis are really militant and actually think that people that dont serve in the army dont deserve the same rights as people that do.
sadly israel is always second to the US when it comes to bad things. we're probably the most militant society after the US.
my current plan is to get out of serving in the army without lying, I'll tell them im a pacifist and that i cant be part of a violent organisation, I'll probably have to do some time in military jail though (which isnt like real jail. mostly draft dodgers and order refusers).
anyway no job is worth 3 years of my life being wasted as part of the army.
Written by: UnclassifiedLeggyGirl
it seems to me that by doing this the government is losing the support of the people they need on their side, the general public.
I dont think they'll lose support by the general public, a lot of israelis are really militant and actually think that people that dont serve in the army dont deserve the same rights as people that do.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Besides, draconian draft rules or not, I still think Israel is a freer society than the U.S.
sadly israel is always second to the US when it comes to bad things. we're probably the most militant society after the US.
Written by: Birgit
I've travelled a bit in Israel and met some guys who were planning to dodge the draft by claiming they were crazy. Unfortunately, some of them ended up going because they said they'd not be able to get a good job if they hadn't served.
my current plan is to get out of serving in the army without lying, I'll tell them im a pacifist and that i cant be part of a violent organisation, I'll probably have to do some time in military jail though (which isnt like real jail. mostly draft dodgers and order refusers).
anyway no job is worth 3 years of my life being wasted as part of the army.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
poiboy - I have a lot of respect for people who stand up for what they believe in. Best of luck with it.
poiboy - I have a lot of respect for people who stand up for what they believe in. Best of luck with it.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
good luck
good luck the best smiles are the ones you lead to
SILVER Member
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
member
151 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posted:
Maybe you could get political asylum somewhere? The UK has a policy of giving asylum to all high profile crooks, criminals and terrorists from third world countries (e.g. Russian Boris Berezovsky, Thai Thaksin Shinawatra, Pakistani Altaf Hussain, etc.), but I'm not sure what the policy would be in a genuine case like yours.
EDITED_BY: Yell fire! (1187087075)
Maybe you could get political asylum somewhere? The UK has a policy of giving asylum to all high profile crooks, criminals and terrorists from third world countries (e.g. Russian Boris Berezovsky, Thai Thaksin Shinawatra, Pakistani Altaf Hussain, etc.), but I'm not sure what the policy would be in a genuine case like yours.
EDITED_BY: Yell fire! (1187087075)
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
I wanted to bump this.
There's a new anti-draft dodging ad campaign here, going by the slogan "A real Israeli doesn't dodge the draft", it's all over the place, and I hate it. It saddens me to see almost no one except other draft dodgers say that this campaign is very very wrong.
Anyway I've been looking for an article about this in English, this blog entry is what I found:
Real Israelis Shoot Guns - Part 1
Real Israelis Shoot Guns - Part 2
Your thoughts?
I wanted to bump this.
There's a new anti-draft dodging ad campaign here, going by the slogan "A real Israeli doesn't dodge the draft", it's all over the place, and I hate it. It saddens me to see almost no one except other draft dodgers say that this campaign is very very wrong.
Anyway I've been looking for an article about this in English, this blog entry is what I found:
Real Israelis Shoot Guns - Part 1
Real Israelis Shoot Guns - Part 2
Your thoughts?
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm against drafting anyway and beleive in free will. I hate war as i am sure most people do but to go to these levels it puts selfdoubt into peoples minds which niggles away at them until they cave in as the guilt is too much. Thats what they count on.
*takes a deep breath*
the world sucks
I'm against drafting anyway and beleive in free will. I hate war as i am sure most people do but to go to these levels it puts selfdoubt into peoples minds which niggles away at them until they cave in as the guilt is too much. Thats what they count on.
*takes a deep breath*
the world sucks
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
and
and Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
BRONZE Member
nut.
756 posts
Location: Bouncing off the walls., England (UK)
nut.
756 posts
Location: Bouncing off the walls., England (UK)
Posted:
Ahh.. go on, I was holding out for a Kiwi sheep farmer, but if y'need a visa..
They should at least have an alternative option, as a lot of countries with a compulsory public service term do, so you can do something that serves your country in a non-violent way.. Good luck with it all anyway..
Ahh.. go on, I was holding out for a Kiwi sheep farmer, but if y'need a visa..
They should at least have an alternative option, as a lot of countries with a compulsory public service term do, so you can do something that serves your country in a non-violent way.. Good luck with it all anyway..
THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!
If that's okay with you?
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
find out you have an obscure medical disorder which prevents you serving. or severely fail an eye test to be registered blind
then you get to wear cool shades and carry a white staff..i mean stick
find out you have an obscure medical disorder which prevents you serving. or severely fail an eye test to be registered blind
then you get to wear cool shades and carry a white staff..i mean stick A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
You can't really do more than democratically oppose it. If you find the majority of Israeli citizens supporting it, you have a few choices, one of them is to leave the country (which is what I would opt for, but that's just me). Dunno whether the UK is that much of an alternative, certainly Germany ain't for me (which is why I am relocating).
"May the universe provide me with the strength to change things I can change, the patience to accept things I can't change and the wisdom to tell one from the other."
You can't really do more than democratically oppose it. If you find the majority of Israeli citizens supporting it, you have a few choices, one of them is to leave the country (which is what I would opt for, but that's just me). Dunno whether the UK is that much of an alternative, certainly Germany ain't for me (which is why I am relocating).
"May the universe provide me with the strength to change things I can change, the patience to accept things I can't change and the wisdom to tell one from the other."
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Member
8 posts
Location: Israel
Member
8 posts
Location: Israel
Posted:
Come on... Poiboy...
You should know your not a "true Israeli"
I mean, if this is the definition...
Personally, as a one with a bit anarchistic tendency, I find this definition very irrelevant for me.
I am Israeli because I live here, and thats it.
Actually, I find it rather satisfying to see that someone up there have noticed that the army have lost some popularity...
Rules are nice, but if enough people do not want to serve in the army, then they won't have any public effect...
Daniel, a *proud* true Israeli
Come on... Poiboy...
You should know your not a "true Israeli"
I mean, if this is the definition...
Personally, as a one with a bit anarchistic tendency, I find this definition very irrelevant for me.
I am Israeli because I live here, and thats it.
Actually, I find it rather satisfying to see that someone up there have noticed that the army have lost some popularity...
Rules are nice, but if enough people do not want to serve in the army, then they won't have any public effect...
Daniel, a *proud* true Israeli
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
I really dont care if I'm a true Israeli or not, actually I always make jokes that not cutting in line, not being a crappy driver, and not being an ars is not much of a threat to me
.
and yeah, I totally agree with you on "I'm Israeli because I live here". I really have no connection to any country other than friends/family.
I really dont care if I'm a true Israeli or not, actually I always make jokes that not cutting in line, not being a crappy driver, and not being an ars is not much of a threat to me
.and yeah, I totally agree with you on "I'm Israeli because I live here". I really have no connection to any country other than friends/family.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
go travelling then...
go travelling then...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
I hate the army so much right now. It's like they systematically call me up at dates I can't make.
So far I've missed callups due to a math test, and a computer science test.
They sent me another one for the same date as my final in physics. I've sent them a request saying I won't be able to make it and asked them to postpone it to late August.
They sent me one for when I'm in the UK.
Obviously, I'm not planning on making it, just needed to rant.
On a brighter note, I've decided on moving to England as soon as I finish high school
I hate the army so much right now. It's like they systematically call me up at dates I can't make.
So far I've missed callups due to a math test, and a computer science test.
They sent me another one for the same date as my final in physics. I've sent them a request saying I won't be able to make it and asked them to postpone it to late August.
They sent me one for when I'm in the UK
.Obviously, I'm not planning on making it, just needed to rant.
On a brighter note, I've decided on moving to England as soon as I finish high school
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
yeay you so should, hugs
x
yeay you so should, hugs
x
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
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