Forums > Social Discussion > Why are you...?
Login/Join to ParticipateHoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
This thread isn't about values or ideals, so much as things that have shaped us as people. Whether you're pro-war, anti-war, pro-soldier while anti-war, whichever.... I'd like this forum to be a way for us to share one thing:
When did you first realize you believed the way you do about war?
Was there a significant event in your life, or a person you looked up to, or an article you read? At what point did you look at yourself and say "I am going to be pro/anti?"
The rules - everyone has their beliefs, we will respect them. This isn't about trying to convince someone you're right or they're wrong. Simply post your answer to the question, and if you would like clarification or debate, please do it through PM.
My realization came when I was old enough to understand that diplomacy doesn't always work. This occurred in martial arts, mostly. I asked my instructor "when is it okay to fight?" He pointed up to the Creed of Karate, and I still remember it (though I became a Tae Kwon Do student later... hehehe).
I come to you with only Karate - empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong, then here are my weapons - my empty hands.
Until this point I had thought it was only ok to defend yourself if someone was beating the hell out of you, but then I realized defending your beliefs and your honor is equally important, and that you could fight for those if necessary. So because of this, I'm pro-war, when I believe the principle behind it is just.
This thread isn't about values or ideals, so much as things that have shaped us as people. Whether you're pro-war, anti-war, pro-soldier while anti-war, whichever.... I'd like this forum to be a way for us to share one thing:
When did you first realize you believed the way you do about war?
Was there a significant event in your life, or a person you looked up to, or an article you read? At what point did you look at yourself and say "I am going to be pro/anti?"
The rules - everyone has their beliefs, we will respect them. This isn't about trying to convince someone you're right or they're wrong. Simply post your answer to the question, and if you would like clarification or debate, please do it through PM.
My realization came when I was old enough to understand that diplomacy doesn't always work. This occurred in martial arts, mostly. I asked my instructor "when is it okay to fight?" He pointed up to the Creed of Karate, and I still remember it (though I became a Tae Kwon Do student later... hehehe).
I come to you with only Karate - empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles, or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong, then here are my weapons - my empty hands.
Until this point I had thought it was only ok to defend yourself if someone was beating the hell out of you, but then I realized defending your beliefs and your honor is equally important, and that you could fight for those if necessary. So because of this, I'm pro-war, when I believe the principle behind it is just.
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
I cant believe that nobody has replied... anyhow....
Well like the sig says, I am not so pro-war as people think. I most definatly not anti-war either. When there I feel the cause is just I am for the war, so far in my life I have yet to see a just cause for a war. Some things that America has been involved in since before my birth I do question, but since I cant change the past I aint worried about it.
I cant believe that nobody has replied... anyhow....
Well like the sig says, I am not so pro-war as people think. I most definatly not anti-war either. When there I feel the cause is just I am for the war, so far in my life I have yet to see a just cause for a war. Some things that America has been involved in since before my birth I do question, but since I cant change the past I aint worried about it.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
if thats true, do you ever think, perhaps, you chose the wrong line of work Ray?
if thats true, do you ever think, perhaps, you chose the wrong line of work Ray?
Jesus helps me trick people.
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
I am not here for a carrer, sorry not in my plan for life. I have my own things that I want to do. I am just saying that I have agreed with this war and the past ones that I actually understand. Some of the stuff in the past I dont agree with.
All that means is that I think for myself, and dont let anyone dictate my thoughts to me.
I am not here for a carrer, sorry not in my plan for life. I have my own things that I want to do. I am just saying that I have agreed with this war and the past ones that I actually understand. Some of the stuff in the past I dont agree with.
All that means is that I think for myself, and dont let anyone dictate my thoughts to me.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
104 posts
Location: Stillwater, OK
104 posts
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posted:
I grew up with the military. Never had anything but respect for our troops and a deep understandng that society's force- whether it be police or military- is what keeps society from being something other than...
Despite the lofty ideals of some, I've come to realize- thanks to the ocassional black eye and bloody nose- that to live life on the assumption that the other guy is going to play nice is a sure fire way to get f----d.
War is our way and shall continue to be for quite some time.
I grew up with the military. Never had anything but respect for our troops and a deep understandng that society's force- whether it be police or military- is what keeps society from being something other than...
Despite the lofty ideals of some, I've come to realize- thanks to the ocassional black eye and bloody nose- that to live life on the assumption that the other guy is going to play nice is a sure fire way to get f----d.
War is our way and shall continue to be for quite some time.
No one knows me like I do.
HoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
*bump*
people must not be thinking about their convictions the way i'd hoped to inspire...
*bump*
people must not be thinking about their convictions the way i'd hoped to inspire...
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
People dont always like to talk about their convictions. Some are afraid that sombody might punch a hole in it.
Dont be supprised when people dont want to open their hearts and soul hehe
People dont always like to talk about their convictions. Some are afraid that sombody might punch a hole in it.
Dont be supprised when people dont want to open their hearts and soul hehe
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
HoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
Hehe and here I thought I was just intimidating...
Hehe and here I thought I was just intimidating...
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
member
104 posts
Location: Stillwater, OK
104 posts
Location: Stillwater, OK
Posted:
Ah, convictions, such a funny thing.
Can't afford convictions in today's "never ever piss anyone off" world.
Ah, convictions, such a funny thing.
Can't afford convictions in today's "never ever piss anyone off" world.
No one knows me like I do.
member
531 posts
531 posts
Posted:
I have said on more than one occasion that I am neither for or against this.
War is most definitely not the answer because just like a schoolyard fight there will be a winner and a loser.The winner justifies fighting as standing up for oneself while the loser walks away beaten and bitter. And in this day and age it just means someday that person is gonna be looking for some vindication somewhere down the road.
Ignorance is not the answer either.Ignorance is what allowed the dictators of the past to rise to power.Granted Saddam was in no way going to ever achieve the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin did but that doesn't justify leaving him to his own devices.
I choose to be in the middle because I don't have all the info and because I am not a part of the decision making process.I just hope that whatever way the situation turns it is for the better.
Hopefully some day the human race will find another solution but the odds of that are almost non-existent.I do agree with DaiT that war is human nature and that it will be a long time before we give it up.
If I had the kind of info that our government has access to than I would pick a side but I don't.Does anyone here have that information? No.
I have said on more than one occasion that I am neither for or against this.
War is most definitely not the answer because just like a schoolyard fight there will be a winner and a loser.The winner justifies fighting as standing up for oneself while the loser walks away beaten and bitter. And in this day and age it just means someday that person is gonna be looking for some vindication somewhere down the road.
Ignorance is not the answer either.Ignorance is what allowed the dictators of the past to rise to power.Granted Saddam was in no way going to ever achieve the kind of power that Hitler or Stalin did but that doesn't justify leaving him to his own devices.
I choose to be in the middle because I don't have all the info and because I am not a part of the decision making process.I just hope that whatever way the situation turns it is for the better.
Hopefully some day the human race will find another solution but the odds of that are almost non-existent.I do agree with DaiT that war is human nature and that it will be a long time before we give it up.
If I had the kind of info that our government has access to than I would pick a side but I don't.Does anyone here have that information? No.
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
Just out of curiosity Ray, are you state side, or have you been called up?
Just out of curiosity Ray, are you state side, or have you been called up?
Jesus helps me trick people.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
I would say the remembrance day ceremonies in canada on november 11th (americans have veterns day) forged my anti-war opinnion. The motto of remembrance day is "never again" I am not agaisnt all wars and some people would say that contradicts my "never again" beliefs and they think it's pretty convinient that I am agaisnt this war but not others. I think most of what it boils down to is the US and UK haven't done a good enough job selling this war. Honestly if they just came out and said it was about humanitarian reasons I would support the war. But they started out with one reason, changed it to another then another and it just seems to me like they are grabbing at straws. Maybe it is an error for me to want to deny iraq the humanitarian relief they need just to uphold an ideal of mine. But I think this war more importantly the consequences of this war which will echo across the middleeast and further will compromise more human rights then it is guarding.
I would say the remembrance day ceremonies in canada on november 11th (americans have veterns day) forged my anti-war opinnion. The motto of remembrance day is "never again" I am not agaisnt all wars and some people would say that contradicts my "never again" beliefs and they think it's pretty convinient that I am agaisnt this war but not others. I think most of what it boils down to is the US and UK haven't done a good enough job selling this war. Honestly if they just came out and said it was about humanitarian reasons I would support the war. But they started out with one reason, changed it to another then another and it just seems to me like they are grabbing at straws. Maybe it is an error for me to want to deny iraq the humanitarian relief they need just to uphold an ideal of mine. But I think this war more importantly the consequences of this war which will echo across the middleeast and further will compromise more human rights then it is guarding.
member
165 posts
Location: Halifax, NS
165 posts
Location: Halifax, NS
Posted:
i'm pro war....
i think that there are times and situation when only a physical cnfrontation is needed.. i have always felt this way
the reasons for this attitude change as i get older but ..
there ae people out there who respect nothing but the larger stick and they are not changing today or tomorrow.. when violence is no longer respected then war will not be needed..
i'm against breaking promises
like he promise made to the UN by the USA and the cronies of Bush who have decided to break their word to the UN and go to war.
to sum up
Ivan is pro war
Ivan is opposed to breaking UN policy
"war is about faith, terrorism is about politics"
( i don't know who said it )
i'm pro war....
i think that there are times and situation when only a physical cnfrontation is needed.. i have always felt this way
the reasons for this attitude change as i get older but ..
there ae people out there who respect nothing but the larger stick and they are not changing today or tomorrow.. when violence is no longer respected then war will not be needed..
i'm against breaking promises
like he promise made to the UN by the USA and the cronies of Bush who have decided to break their word to the UN and go to war.
to sum up
Ivan is pro war
Ivan is opposed to breaking UN policy
"war is about faith, terrorism is about politics"
( i don't know who said it )
thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !
addict
522 posts
Location: Berlin
522 posts
Location: Berlin
Posted:
I have as far as I remember always kept changing my opinion, basing myself on the current facts (and sensible opinions) available to me... (a fact many people don't like claiming I sit on the fence or swap sides too often)
Sometimes I'm pro-war, sometimes against it, even within the current conflict. Echoing what Ray said, if there is a truly worthy cause to fight for, then by all means, fight. Unfortunately nothing is ever so clear cut. I have to say I hate the hypocrisy inherent in this conflict.
I think reserving ones opinion and not judging the whole concept of war but taking each case into account is the way forward... never eliminating the possibility and never embracing it without grim resolution.
For me it would be unthinkable to allow someone to invade my country (whichever one I lay claim to: Spain/England/Mexico!) without declaring war and fighting back yet I could not bring myself to condone military action against a dictatorship just because they didn't like me... (please forgive my drastic simplification of current events).
I'm sure we all agree (or quite frankly bl##dy well should) that war is a nasty thing. Despite this I think it is sometimes necessary. However, not necessarily in this case, and not necessarily in this way.
So there we go... This I have felt for many many years.
As far as people I look up to in order to form my ever changing beliefs: the media and journalists in their purest form (for which one would have to watch different channels from different countries etc), telling/showing us what they can of what is really happening, risking their lives and minds to bring us a view of what is going on. I think that no current politician or government is honest/transparent enough to tell us the real reasons behind things. Thus I will not form an opinion solely on what they say.
To be perfectly honest, I think the world would be a happier place if we all played with some fire-toys and then sat down for nice quiet drink together!
And there goes my rant for the evening!
Actually, one person I will quote as having shaped my view, Benedick from Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing":
"Doth not the appetite alter? a man loves the meat in his youth that he cannot endure in his age"
Admittedly the quote is in reference to liking a woman, but the principle of allowing a change in opinion is there...
I have as far as I remember always kept changing my opinion, basing myself on the current facts (and sensible opinions) available to me... (a fact many people don't like claiming I sit on the fence or swap sides too often)
Sometimes I'm pro-war, sometimes against it, even within the current conflict. Echoing what Ray said, if there is a truly worthy cause to fight for, then by all means, fight. Unfortunately nothing is ever so clear cut. I have to say I hate the hypocrisy inherent in this conflict.
I think reserving ones opinion and not judging the whole concept of war but taking each case into account is the way forward... never eliminating the possibility and never embracing it without grim resolution.
For me it would be unthinkable to allow someone to invade my country (whichever one I lay claim to: Spain/England/Mexico!) without declaring war and fighting back yet I could not bring myself to condone military action against a dictatorship just because they didn't like me... (please forgive my drastic simplification of current events).
I'm sure we all agree (or quite frankly bl##dy well should) that war is a nasty thing. Despite this I think it is sometimes necessary. However, not necessarily in this case, and not necessarily in this way.
So there we go... This I have felt for many many years.
As far as people I look up to in order to form my ever changing beliefs: the media and journalists in their purest form (for which one would have to watch different channels from different countries etc), telling/showing us what they can of what is really happening, risking their lives and minds to bring us a view of what is going on. I think that no current politician or government is honest/transparent enough to tell us the real reasons behind things. Thus I will not form an opinion solely on what they say.
To be perfectly honest, I think the world would be a happier place if we all played with some fire-toys and then sat down for nice quiet drink together!
And there goes my rant for the evening!
Actually, one person I will quote as having shaped my view, Benedick from Shakespeare's "Much Ado About Nothing":
"Doth not the appetite alter? a man loves the meat in his youth that he cannot endure in his age"
Admittedly the quote is in reference to liking a woman, but the principle of allowing a change in opinion is there...
Your life is ending one minute at a time...
So live it.
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