Forums > Social Discussion > Thoughts on vegetarianism
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I don't think it's about saving animals. I think it's about not eating animals myself, and not wishing for animals to die in order that I may live. In which I'm successful.
I don't think it's about saving animals. I think it's about not eating animals myself, and not wishing for animals to die in order that I may live. In which I'm successful.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
The human body gets sustenance from what is available, traditionally a combination of meat and vegetable foods.
However, it doesn't need meat, the existence of many millions of healthy long term vegetarians shows that.
Humans can live healthily on a mixture of meat and vegetation.
They can live healthily on a pure vegetation diet.
It's doubtful that they can live healthily on a pure meat diet (maybe eskimos are a counter example, but I suspect that there are genetic factors there, plus it's a very specialised form of meat i.e. sea animals and a very specialised lifestyle).
Certtainly it's pretty clear that a pure meat diet in the forms modern westerners take would probably kill you with heart attack/clogged up arteries/blood pressure etc.
Written by: nearly_all_gone
But unfortunatley, the human body is still adapted to gain sustenance from meat. There isn't a better source of protein, and it's a really good source of iron and stuff... I think that really, the human body does need meat.
The human body gets sustenance from what is available, traditionally a combination of meat and vegetable foods.
However, it doesn't need meat, the existence of many millions of healthy long term vegetarians shows that.
Humans can live healthily on a mixture of meat and vegetation.
They can live healthily on a pure vegetation diet.
It's doubtful that they can live healthily on a pure meat diet (maybe eskimos are a counter example, but I suspect that there are genetic factors there, plus it's a very specialised form of meat i.e. sea animals and a very specialised lifestyle).
Certtainly it's pretty clear that a pure meat diet in the forms modern westerners take would probably kill you with heart attack/clogged up arteries/blood pressure etc.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
trusty sidekick to superman
799 posts
Location: oxford, england, uk
trusty sidekick to superman
799 posts
Location: oxford, england, uk
Posted:
totally. none of my family apart from my dad (who doesnt eat meat now unless his parents make him. lol) have ever eaten meat and ive got 1 amazing surfer/actor for a brother and the other plays county rugby, so you cant really call either of them unhealthy. i think that humans have got the brains that other animals havent so we can choose what we do and dont eat. Other animals that dont have the brains eat whats available to survive. Plenty of studies have shone that vegies have far lower colesterol on average and are 98% less likely to be become obese. Thats sounds pretty healthy to me.
totally. none of my family apart from my dad (who doesnt eat meat now unless his parents make him. lol) have ever eaten meat and ive got 1 amazing surfer/actor for a brother and the other plays county rugby, so you cant really call either of them unhealthy. i think that humans have got the brains that other animals havent so we can choose what we do and dont eat. Other animals that dont have the brains eat whats available to survive. Plenty of studies have shone that vegies have far lower colesterol on average and are 98% less likely to be become obese. Thats sounds pretty healthy to me.
Livin' on dreams and custard creams
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Feel a bit misquoted though, I am vegetarian and what I'm trying to say is that yes you can be fully healthy from just vegetation, but that substitutes of some kind of another (be that loads and loads of nuts and pulses, it substitutes something from a typical human diet of meat and vegetation) are required for that to work in the majority of cases. People would become anaemic if they just tried to subsist on garden salad and raw carrots. You have to make some kind of effort for protein, iron and all the other stuff that I can't specifically name because I'm not clued in about nutrition.
Feel a bit misquoted though, I am vegetarian and what I'm trying to say is that yes you can be fully healthy from just vegetation, but that substitutes of some kind of another (be that loads and loads of nuts and pulses, it substitutes something from a typical human diet of meat and vegetation) are required for that to work in the majority of cases. People would become anaemic if they just tried to subsist on garden salad and raw carrots. You have to make some kind of effort for protein, iron and all the other stuff that I can't specifically name because I'm not clued in about nutrition.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
I don't think you can feasibly say either way, 'humans are meant to eat meat' or, 'humans are not meant to eat meat'.... we have a genetical advantage in being physically able to eat both, in order to sustain ourselves and since we are in the priviliged position of having the choice then the argument either way seems to me to be irrelevant. It is merely a choice as to whether or not you become vegetarian, as we don't currently need to rely on either form. Whereas in the example OWD gave, the inuit will tend to survive primarily on meat, because lets face it, they're not going to be able to grow a lot of fruit or veg within the arctic circle, it becomes necessity. Although in this day and age it is not beyond ability to preserve and import from elsewhere if they so wish.
If the situation was reversed and there was a tribe of humans living on a remote island where there were no other inhabitants sizable enough for eating but there was a nice little mango grove and a bunch of other tasty vegetation, then they would probably be vegetarian out of necessity.
Back to the matter of choice, i can understand that it's easier to have two black and white categories of vegetarian and non-vegetarian but most stuff isn't black or white, there's never much room for all the shades of grey... so i propose that a new term be invented for all the folk who like their veggies but also a bit of fish/ gelatin/ rennet/ poultry or whatever their non-veggie weakness may be. How about...... vegenivore?
Written by: onewheeldave
It's doubtful that they can live healthily on a pure meat diet (maybe eskimos are a counter example, but I suspect that there are genetic factors there, plus it's a very specialised form of meat i.e. sea animals and a very specialised lifestyle).
I don't think you can feasibly say either way, 'humans are meant to eat meat' or, 'humans are not meant to eat meat'.... we have a genetical advantage in being physically able to eat both, in order to sustain ourselves and since we are in the priviliged position of having the choice then the argument either way seems to me to be irrelevant. It is merely a choice as to whether or not you become vegetarian, as we don't currently need to rely on either form. Whereas in the example OWD gave, the inuit will tend to survive primarily on meat, because lets face it, they're not going to be able to grow a lot of fruit or veg within the arctic circle, it becomes necessity. Although in this day and age it is not beyond ability to preserve and import from elsewhere if they so wish.
If the situation was reversed and there was a tribe of humans living on a remote island where there were no other inhabitants sizable enough for eating but there was a nice little mango grove and a bunch of other tasty vegetation, then they would probably be vegetarian out of necessity.
Back to the matter of choice, i can understand that it's easier to have two black and white categories of vegetarian and non-vegetarian but most stuff isn't black or white, there's never much room for all the shades of grey... so i propose that a new term be invented for all the folk who like their veggies but also a bit of fish/ gelatin/ rennet/ poultry or whatever their non-veggie weakness may be. How about...... vegenivore?
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
nah.... that sounds too much like someone who eats vegans
Written by: NOn
so i propose that a new term be invented for all the folk who like their veggies but also a bit of fish/ gelatin/ rennet/ poultry or whatever their non-veggie weakness may be. How about...... vegenivore?
nah.... that sounds too much like someone who eats vegans
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely 
activist for HoPper liberation.
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
1,643 posts
Location: ffidrac
Posted:
ok, so that one applies if you mainly vegetarian but occasionally enjoy a spot of cannibalism.... 
carnitarian? no that's rubbish... vegefisharian? vegenotentirelyan? vege........gah.. dunno.... vegegahdunno! there we go, there's the new word
ok, so that one applies if you mainly vegetarian but occasionally enjoy a spot of cannibalism.... carnitarian? no that's rubbish... vegefisharian? vegenotentirelyan? vege........gah.. dunno.... vegegahdunno! there we go, there's the new word
Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006
if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
so there i am,
innocently surfing the net for vegetarian links...
then I find this link especially for darkpoet!!!!!
quote from the site: "Welcome to the first and only adult site made by and featuring a cast of sexy vegans and vegetarians! Veg Porn is alternative porn and sex-positive culture for herbivores and those who love them, and we think you'll find something here that tickles you fancy."
oh man, what do people come up with next... poi-porn????
.
Written by: darkpoet
and have you ever seen a healthy looking vegitarian??
no! theyre all anemic and a slate clammy gray colour
so there i am,
innocently surfing the net for vegetarian links... then I find this link especially for darkpoet!!!!!quote from the site: "Welcome to the first and only adult site made by and featuring a cast of sexy vegans and vegetarians! Veg Porn is alternative porn and sex-positive culture for herbivores and those who love them, and we think you'll find something here that tickles you fancy."
oh man, what do people come up with next... poi-porn????
.
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
old hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
Posted:
Written by: flid
Oi! Poi Pr0n was my idea!!!
Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
www.jennifersteele.com (WARNING: ADULT MATERIAL!)
Poi porn has been done.
Did I mention that Jen Steele was in the camp next-door at Burning Man?
www.jennifersteele.com (WARNING: ADULT MATERIAL!)
Poi porn has been done.
Did I mention that Jen Steele was in the camp next-door at Burning Man?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
newbie
36 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, U.S.
newbie
36 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, U.S.
Posted:
i'm a vegan.
i'm a vegan.
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
i've been vegetarian for about 3 weeks now and it's absolute murder.
I WANT SOME MEAT!!!!
i'm a bad vegearian...
i've been vegetarian for about 3 weeks now and it's absolute murder.
I WANT SOME MEAT!!!!
i'm a bad vegearian...
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Here's a page on 'flexitarianism'- if you're going to crack in the near future it could be an alternative to bingeing on meat.
https://www.cbass.com/flexitarian.htm
Alternatively, try to work out what about meat you're craving- if it's fat then there are vegetarian options with high fat. If it's protein, then eat some eggs etc.
If it's the taste then just stick with finding tasty vegetarian stuff and, in time the lust for meat should pass.
I've not eaten meat for many, many years, and really don't miss it.
Here's a page on 'flexitarianism'- if you're going to crack in the near future it could be an alternative to bingeing on meat.
https://www.cbass.com/flexitarian.htm
Alternatively, try to work out what about meat you're craving- if it's fat then there are vegetarian options with high fat. If it's protein, then eat some eggs etc.
If it's the taste then just stick with finding tasty vegetarian stuff and, in time the lust for meat should pass.
I've not eaten meat for many, many years, and really don't miss it.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thanks for the link Dave
I do find that sometimes, particularly when I'm wasted and my principles aren't exactly in the forefront of my mind, I want to give in and eat a burger or something. It's lucky I live in Brighton where you can easily get vegetarian options in most greasy burger joints - not so back in Dunstable!
Thanks for the link Dave
I do find that sometimes, particularly when I'm wasted and my principles aren't exactly in the forefront of my mind, I want to give in and eat a burger or something. It's lucky I live in Brighton where you can easily get vegetarian options in most greasy burger joints - not so back in Dunstable!
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
well i decided beforehand that i would only eat meat if i knew the farm it's from and that the animal had a good life - and also game that's from the wild cos obviously that's had the most natural life too.
it's ok when i'm home in somerset cos basically everyone i know has a farma and most of them are organic - it's just london i have a problem with!
well i decided beforehand that i would only eat meat if i knew the farm it's from and that the animal had a good life - and also game that's from the wild cos obviously that's had the most natural life too.
it's ok when i'm home in somerset cos basically everyone i know has a farma and most of them are organic - it's just london i have a problem with!
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
That depends on what a demivegetarian is- it's not a term I'm familiar with.
If they do mean the same I think the flexitarianism is more suitable in that most vegetarians maintain that vegetarianism involves zero meat consumption.
So the term demi-vegetarian, in that sense, is somewhat meaningless, or at least misleading, as one who eats any meat is not a vegetarian at all.
Flexitarian is one who eats primarily a vegetarian diet, but occasionally consumes meat (mayb for health reasons, maybe because, like Tao Star, they are having serious problems with cravings).
It has the advantage of not including the term 'vegetarian' in its name.
Written by: Spanner
Thanks for the link Dave - very interesting
But I'm obviously missing something here: what's the difference between flexitarianism and demivegetarianism?
That depends on what a demivegetarian is- it's not a term I'm familiar with.
If they do mean the same I think the flexitarianism is more suitable in that most vegetarians maintain that vegetarianism involves zero meat consumption.
So the term demi-vegetarian, in that sense, is somewhat meaningless, or at least misleading, as one who eats any meat is not a vegetarian at all.
Flexitarian is one who eats primarily a vegetarian diet, but occasionally consumes meat (mayb for health reasons, maybe because, like Tao Star, they are having serious problems with cravings).
It has the advantage of not including the term 'vegetarian' in its name.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Flexitarian, sounds like a contortionist.
What’s the difference between a flexitarian or demivegetarianism? Perhaps a question, more to the point, is what’s the difference between a demivegetarianism and a pescetarian?
A demi vegetarian eats little of no meat, but may eat fish.
All these terms to deal with Dave, and you said it was easy to become a vegetarian
It just seems to me that what you are really discussing, in a round about way, is a healthy, balanced diet.
This may be an old fashioned concept, but I always though a vegetarian was a person who ate vegetables and no meat.
Flexitarian, sounds like a contortionist.
What’s the difference between a flexitarian or demivegetarianism? Perhaps a question, more to the point, is what’s the difference between a demivegetarianism and a pescetarian?
A demi vegetarian eats little of no meat, but may eat fish.
All these terms to deal with Dave, and you said it was easy to become a vegetarian
It just seems to me that what you are really discussing, in a round about way, is a healthy, balanced diet.
This may be an old fashioned concept, but I always though a vegetarian was a person who ate vegetables and no meat.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
While maybe not strictly relevant to this phase of the thread, I found this page: -
https://www.cbass.com/Hilligenn.htm
which may be inspiring for vegetarians/anyone thinking of becoming veggie, but who have concerns that it may adversely affect health, cause muscle loss or be inadequate for training etc.
While maybe not strictly relevant to this phase of the thread, I found this page: -
https://www.cbass.com/Hilligenn.htm
which may be inspiring for vegetarians/anyone thinking of becoming veggie, but who have concerns that it may adversely affect health, cause muscle loss or be inadequate for training etc.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Another good link, thanks Dave
I used to be pescitarian for many years before I became fully vegetarian, primarily for health reasons. But I find it very easy to get the nutrients I got from fish from other sources - I find it less easy to justify eating them morally (personally!!!).
I was wondering - what are peoples opinions of eating animal derivatives? Like Gelatine, stuff like that..? Personally I have to say I do eat them, I don't feel I support the meat trade by occasionally having a sweet and it's the meat trade I have a problem with. Also I do wear leather sometimes, although I try to avoid it wherever possible.
So the question I'm asking is... how strict a vegetarian are you, and why?
Another good link, thanks Dave
I used to be pescitarian for many years before I became fully vegetarian, primarily for health reasons. But I find it very easy to get the nutrients I got from fish from other sources - I find it less easy to justify eating them morally (personally!!!).
I was wondering - what are peoples opinions of eating animal derivatives? Like Gelatine, stuff like that..? Personally I have to say I do eat them, I don't feel I support the meat trade by occasionally having a sweet and it's the meat trade I have a problem with. Also I do wear leather sometimes, although I try to avoid it wherever possible.
So the question I'm asking is... how strict a vegetarian are you, and why?
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
i've been called strict by others but i don't see it that way myself.
i don't eat food containing any animal bi-products at all, i.e. gelatine, animal fats etc.
i don't know why, i've just always been that way. i either give something 100% or don't bother. the first thing i do is read the ingredients on every product i buy, i've been doing it for years, it's just second nature at this stage.
i'm not a vegan, just vegetarian, and i also don't eat eggs. i've toyed with the idea of becoming a vegan, but one of my fav foods is cheese (without rennet) and to give up something i really like would in my opinion be very strict indeed.
this means that i also don't buy products containing any egg derivatives either.
call it anal if you will, it's just the way i shop/cook/eat, and i like it that way.
i believe you are what you eat.
i also don't buy anything containing E-numbers. i'm no science buff, so i've no idea what half of them are. i've been told some of them are harmless, but sorry, if i don't know what it is, then it's not going into my body.
it was only fairly recently though that i found out that a huge proportion of E-numbers are actually "non-vegetarian".
here's a fuller list of E-numbers for anyone who's interested.....
they really don't sound like the type of things you want to be eating now do they........
i've been called strict by others but i don't see it that way myself.
i don't eat food containing any animal bi-products at all, i.e. gelatine, animal fats etc.
i don't know why, i've just always been that way. i either give something 100% or don't bother. the first thing i do is read the ingredients on every product i buy, i've been doing it for years, it's just second nature at this stage.
i'm not a vegan, just vegetarian, and i also don't eat eggs. i've toyed with the idea of becoming a vegan, but one of my fav foods is cheese (without rennet) and to give up something i really like would in my opinion be very strict indeed.
this means that i also don't buy products containing any egg derivatives either.
call it anal if you will, it's just the way i shop/cook/eat, and i like it that way.
i believe you are what you eat.
i also don't buy anything containing E-numbers. i'm no science buff, so i've no idea what half of them are. i've been told some of them are harmless, but sorry, if i don't know what it is, then it's not going into my body.
it was only fairly recently though that i found out that a huge proportion of E-numbers are actually "non-vegetarian".
here's a fuller list of E-numbers for anyone who's interested.....
they really don't sound like the type of things you want to be eating now do they........
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
I wouldn't call it anal at all, I have a lot of respect for people who take it seriously and go to the effort of looking into things like that. One of my best mates is vegan and it's amazing to see how little she can actually buy from shops to eat. She pretty much always cooks everything from scratch, which is really cool but more effort than I'm capable of!
That list is huge (and scary). I'm impressed (and shocked)!
If you are what you eat then I'm a tescos 8-for-99p veggieburger sandwich with cheese and ketchup.
I can live with that
I wouldn't call it anal at all, I have a lot of respect for people who take it seriously and go to the effort of looking into things like that. One of my best mates is vegan and it's amazing to see how little she can actually buy from shops to eat. She pretty much always cooks everything from scratch, which is really cool but more effort than I'm capable of!
That list is huge (and scary). I'm impressed (and shocked)!
If you are what you eat then I'm a tescos 8-for-99p veggieburger sandwich with cheese and ketchup.
I can live with that
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
just a note on cooking everything from scratch, which is what i do too..... it doesn't always have to be the tremendous amount of effort people suggest.
if i'm cooking something like an oven dish, or even pasta sauce from scratch, of course it involves more effort that just adding water to a packet of dehydrated sawdust, but it makes more sense to make extra. and freeze it.
make 4 times the amount you need. then some day that you don't feel like putting in the effort...... voila! a tasty, nutritious and healthy meal ready in no time
Written by: nearly_all_gone
If you are what you eat then I'm a tescos 8-for-99p veggieburger sandwich with cheese and ketchup.
I can live with that
just a note on cooking everything from scratch, which is what i do too..... it doesn't always have to be the tremendous amount of effort people suggest.
if i'm cooking something like an oven dish, or even pasta sauce from scratch, of course it involves more effort that just adding water to a packet of dehydrated sawdust, but it makes more sense to make extra. and freeze it.
make 4 times the amount you need. then some day that you don't feel like putting in the effort...... voila! a tasty, nutritious and healthy meal ready in no time
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Well, here we go with another unpopular, but well meaning, post on the ignorance of animal libbers, or should that be animal fibbers.
Abercrombie and Fitch have joined a campaign led by the animal rights group PETA to boycott of Australian wool because of objections to a method of preventing blowfly strike in sheep.
To me this is another case of the well meaning drowning out the well informed. Like how many people have seen a “fly blown” sheep, or have any appreciation of the horrendous pain and suffering a fly blown sheep is subjected to?
I’d like to know how many animals are hurt or killed when ignorant "animal righters” sitting behind a desk somewhere in an air conditioned office, make objections to things they know nothing about? And what percentage of Australian sheep are mulsed anyhow? I would suggest it is very small, compared to other methods, but it could be seen as part of an integrated approach to flystrike.
Warning the photos at PETA are bad, but nowhere as bad as fly strike.
Well, here we go with another unpopular, but well meaning, post on the ignorance of animal libbers, or should that be animal fibbers.
Abercrombie and Fitch have joined a campaign led by the animal rights group PETA to boycott of Australian wool because of objections to a method of preventing blowfly strike in sheep.
To me this is another case of the well meaning drowning out the well informed. Like how many people have seen a “fly blown” sheep, or have any appreciation of the horrendous pain and suffering a fly blown sheep is subjected to?
I’d like to know how many animals are hurt or killed when ignorant "animal righters” sitting behind a desk somewhere in an air conditioned office, make objections to things they know nothing about? And what percentage of Australian sheep are mulsed anyhow? I would suggest it is very small, compared to other methods, but it could be seen as part of an integrated approach to flystrike.
Warning the photos at PETA are bad, but nowhere as bad as fly strike.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I don't know anything about fly blown sheep, or the measures used against it, so I can't comment.
But I will comment on the way you make your contempt for those who care for animals very clear ie-
surely it would be better to refer to the ignorance of some animal libbers? Presumably you do acknowledge that others are sincere, restrained and tackling genuine issues of unnecessary animal abuse?
I'm sure if you were less aggressive, it would make people more likely to look into the issues you're putting forward.
I don't know anything about fly blown sheep, or the measures used against it, so I can't comment.
But I will comment on the way you make your contempt for those who care for animals very clear ie-
Written by: Stone
Well, here we go with another unpopular, but well meaning, post on the ignorance of animal libbers, or should that be animal fibbers.
surely it would be better to refer to the ignorance of some animal libbers? Presumably you do acknowledge that others are sincere, restrained and tackling genuine issues of unnecessary animal abuse?
I'm sure if you were less aggressive, it would make people more likely to look into the issues you're putting forward.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I just was subjected to a tirade by a vegan this week about how:
1) I'm a quack because I'm in medical school.
2) Vitamin B-12 is only necessary if you poison yourself with a non-vegan diet and thus vegans do not require B-12 (or B-complex vitamins in general)
3) The bacteria in the gut, when properly nourished with a vegan diet, can produce all essential amino acids and vitamins.
Now, this vegan is an adult and is entitled to her own medical beliefs, but wow...
The denial that people will go into to justify their pride.
I just was subjected to a tirade by a vegan this week about how:
1) I'm a quack because I'm in medical school.
2) Vitamin B-12 is only necessary if you poison yourself with a non-vegan diet and thus vegans do not require B-12 (or B-complex vitamins in general)
3) The bacteria in the gut, when properly nourished with a vegan diet, can produce all essential amino acids and vitamins.
Now, this vegan is an adult and is entitled to her own medical beliefs, but wow...
The denial that people will go into to justify their pride.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Oops Dave, I had me farmer Joh hat on when I made that daft, but well meaning post. What I hold in contempt is ignorance. Especially when it is used to back opinions that have enormous ramification on other peoples lives. But then I’ve said that many times in this thread.
Also, I think you have to accept the odd generalisation, because from a farmer’s perspective that’s how animal libbers are seen. The other part of that story is the pressure to ban Australian live sheep exports to the Middle-east.
Lightning makes a good point when he says “The denial that people will go into to justify their pride”. While I don’t quite look at it that way, I’ve know what he means. I strike many examples of this of this attitude when people talk about “organic farming”, the holy grail. For example, some people just have no understanding of plant breeding, and stick to almost fairy tale beliefs because that’s what they want to believe. For example, old fashioned wheat seed is better than the new modern hybrids. For a start, the new varieties aren’t hybrids, that’s just incorrect, but do you think you can convince an ardent organic supporter of the truth. They don't want to believe anything that challenges their thinking. They just lock themselves in.
Ideologically speaking, I find that I sit with the fruitarians. I believe that life is life, and I don’t see a lot of difference between killing a plant or an animal. In both situations life is destroyed. And, as a species, we can’t even stop killing each other, let alone other life forms.
Have a nice day
Oops Dave, I had me farmer Joh hat on when I made that daft, but well meaning post. What I hold in contempt is ignorance. Especially when it is used to back opinions that have enormous ramification on other peoples lives. But then I’ve said that many times in this thread.
Also, I think you have to accept the odd generalisation, because from a farmer’s perspective that’s how animal libbers are seen. The other part of that story is the pressure to ban Australian live sheep exports to the Middle-east.
Lightning makes a good point when he says “The denial that people will go into to justify their pride”. While I don’t quite look at it that way, I’ve know what he means. I strike many examples of this of this attitude when people talk about “organic farming”, the holy grail. For example, some people just have no understanding of plant breeding, and stick to almost fairy tale beliefs because that’s what they want to believe. For example, old fashioned wheat seed is better than the new modern hybrids. For a start, the new varieties aren’t hybrids, that’s just incorrect, but do you think you can convince an ardent organic supporter of the truth. They don't want to believe anything that challenges their thinking. They just lock themselves in.
Ideologically speaking, I find that I sit with the fruitarians. I believe that life is life, and I don’t see a lot of difference between killing a plant or an animal. In both situations life is destroyed. And, as a species, we can’t even stop killing each other, let alone other life forms.
Have a nice day
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Well OWD, perhaps I should have counted to ten before the last few posts, but coming off a farm and still working in agriculture, I’m torn many ways on some of these issues. Not the least being the social consequences for remote rural communities. Anyhow, I’m basically a plant person, and I add what I intended to say before I got off track.
One important point that was missed with the definition of flexitarianism, was that they apparently see meat as a side dish or a sauce. Like instead of meat and three veg, you have three veg and a small portion of meat. Now while this sounds like a bit of a wank, it’s got to be the ultimate compromise. The gradual reduction of meat consumption will take the pressure of factory farms and everyone lived happily ever after.
Well OWD, perhaps I should have counted to ten before the last few posts, but coming off a farm and still working in agriculture, I’m torn many ways on some of these issues. Not the least being the social consequences for remote rural communities. Anyhow, I’m basically a plant person, and I add what I intended to say before I got off track.
One important point that was missed with the definition of flexitarianism, was that they apparently see meat as a side dish or a sauce. Like instead of meat and three veg, you have three veg and a small portion of meat. Now while this sounds like a bit of a wank, it’s got to be the ultimate compromise. The gradual reduction of meat consumption will take the pressure of factory farms and everyone lived happily ever after.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It's a nice vision, as long as 'everyone' includes the animals
The good thing is that if animal produce consumption does go down substantially, then the lesser number of animals could be kept in better conditions.
For example, near me there's a farm which allows its hens genuine free roaming- consequently it can boast that its hens aren't debeaked.
Hopefully, if animal produce consumption does substantially decrease, it will be feasable for this to become the standard way of raising chicks- a mutually symbiotic relationship between humans and the animals they farm.
It's a nice vision, as long as 'everyone' includes the animals
The good thing is that if animal produce consumption does go down substantially, then the lesser number of animals could be kept in better conditions.
For example, near me there's a farm which allows its hens genuine free roaming- consequently it can boast that its hens aren't debeaked.
Hopefully, if animal produce consumption does substantially decrease, it will be feasable for this to become the standard way of raising chicks- a mutually symbiotic relationship between humans and the animals they farm.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands
Posted:
as the devil's advocate (not because i disagree with animal rights as you well know, but because I haven't experienced neither flydrysheep nor "the method" first hand) I would like to post this link to a PETA video about this.
NOT only horrible pictures, but also an explanation about the method, what could and does go wrong and why these australian sheep farmers breed this type of sheep that is not suited for the australian climate. (yep, you guessed it: more wool, more money, more profit, so you can buy more things you don't need).
please watch it and make up your own mind.
any documentation that will support stone's argument is welcome here too,
but for now I have to go with PETA's point of view...
Written by: Stone
Well, here we go with another unpopular, but well meaning, post on the ignorance of animal libbers, or should that be animal fibbers.
Abercrombie and Fitch have joined a campaign led by the animal rights group PETA to boycott of Australian wool because of objections to a method of preventing blowfly strike in sheep.
To me this is another case of the well meaning drowning out the well informed. Like how many people have seen a “fly blown” sheep, or have any appreciation of the horrendous pain and suffering a fly blown sheep is subjected to?
I’d like to know how many animals are hurt or killed when ignorant "animal righters” sitting behind a desk somewhere in an air conditioned office, make objections to things they know nothing about? And what percentage of Australian sheep are mulsed anyhow? I would suggest it is very small, compared to other methods, but it could be seen as part of an integrated approach to flystrike.
as the devil's advocate (not because i disagree with animal rights as you well know, but because I haven't experienced neither flydrysheep nor "the method" first hand) I would like to post this link to a PETA video about this.
NOT only horrible pictures, but also an explanation about the method, what could and does go wrong and why these australian sheep farmers breed this type of sheep that is not suited for the australian climate. (yep, you guessed it: more wool, more money, more profit, so you can buy more things you don't need).
please watch it and make up your own mind.
any documentation that will support stone's argument is welcome here too,
but for now I have to go with PETA's point of view...
eRic.
I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
pOp.
Devils advocate or armchair critic?
Firstly, no one in Australia has made any money out of wool for at least twenty years. The farmers that are still left in the industry are in survival mode, and very poor. This question is not about money or profit; it’s about husbandry.
As far a profits go, I would suspect that companies that join the boycott are just trying to cash in on peoples gullibility.
Perhaps mulsing is anachronistic, but I don’t think anyone is calling for it to be banned. They just want anesthetic used, which would be a good compromise if you didn’t have to do 5000 sheep before lunch. And, have you ever seen a fly blown sheep? Do you know what that means as far as pain goes?
Perhaps we did bring in the wrong type of English sheep out to Australia. Perhaps we shouldn’t have cleared the land and just farmed kangaroos. I don’t know, perhaps we should have done a lot of things differently.
What about that climber who gnawed through his arm because that was the only way he could get free? Would he have died if he had been a vegetarian?
EDITED_BY: Stone (1099611214)
pOp.
Devils advocate or armchair critic?
Firstly, no one in Australia has made any money out of wool for at least twenty years. The farmers that are still left in the industry are in survival mode, and very poor. This question is not about money or profit; it’s about husbandry.
As far a profits go, I would suspect that companies that join the boycott are just trying to cash in on peoples gullibility.
Perhaps mulsing is anachronistic, but I don’t think anyone is calling for it to be banned. They just want anesthetic used, which would be a good compromise if you didn’t have to do 5000 sheep before lunch. And, have you ever seen a fly blown sheep? Do you know what that means as far as pain goes?
Perhaps we did bring in the wrong type of English sheep out to Australia. Perhaps we shouldn’t have cleared the land and just farmed kangaroos. I don’t know, perhaps we should have done a lot of things differently.
What about that climber who gnawed through his arm because that was the only way he could get free? Would he have died if he had been a vegetarian?
EDITED_BY: Stone (1099611214)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
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