Forums > Social Discussion > Thoughts on vegetarianism
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
So I've now been a vegetarian for almost 3 years. I originally became a vegetarian because I realized I was a meat addict. There are also environmental concerns. Ethical concerns are way down on my list since I find it gets confusing for me to strongly support animal research for medical applications while opposing using animals for food. Especially because I'm not vegan.
But the final decision happened, not coincidentally, on the first day of Gross Anatomy dissection lab.
So after 3 years of almost total abstinence from meat (I'll eat meat if there is no other feasable option), I think I'm pretty much de-addicted. The idea of eating a large steak is just not at all appetizing to me.
BUUUUT, this vegetarian business is getting very inconvenient. It makes people stress over where to go for dinner, or what to cook for me. Furthermore, it significantly limits what I can order at a restaurant, and I can't stand it when the only vegetarian options on a menu feature zucchini and mushrooms (two of my least favorite foods).
So I'm starting to debate whether to de-classify myself as a vegetarian and just carry on with life eating very little meat. And by "very little" I mean less than one serving of meat a week. Since my initial reasons were for health, I don't see how this small amount of meat (which, when consumed, will preferably be organic) would change my risk factors. And such miniscule meat consumption wouldn't have much environmental impact. Besides, I have an unfortunate tendency towards anemia.
What do you think?
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posted:
there was once a random guy, who said to someone with a pen and paper, and he said
"im not a vegetarian because i dont like killing animals for meat, im a vegetarian because i dont like vegetables"
or something along the lines of that
there was once a random guy, who said to someone with a pen and paper, and he said
"im not a vegetarian because i dont like killing animals for meat, im a vegetarian because i dont like vegetables"
or something along the lines of that
We are the music makers, We are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams;
World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams;
We are the movers and shakers of the world for ever, it seems.
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
why does there need to be someone to say it?
Written by: Stone
Says Who????
why does there need to be someone to say it?
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
World Champ Procrastinator
580 posts
Location: ||...lost...||
580 posts
Location: ||...lost...||
Posted:
haha, i like that one.. and very valid too 
Written by: Havokist
"im not a vegetarian because i dont like killing animals for meat, im a vegetarian because i dont like vegetables"
haha,
i like that one.. and very valid too SILVER Member
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
Posted:
Hmm...well I don't eat red meat if that means anything. Don't like it, don't trust it...but I eat chicken, cheese, eggs, drink milk etc
I know too many strict vegans and most of them tend to annoy me - be it trying to force their views on me, looking down upon me because I'm not a vegan, or just not being able to eat anything I offer. It doesn't offend me it's just annoying having to stress about what one person can eat.
My brother has been vegan for a few months, I admire him for it because I never could but I can't say 'hey do you want some such and such too while I'm up?" and then I always remember 'Oh wait...you can't eat that, get something yourself'. He's a fairly strict vegan so delves deep into gellotin (is it gellotin, can't remember) ethics and whatnot.
I'm kind of over vegetarianism...Sorry if that sounds selfish and cold. I don't mean it to be, I'm just a bit sick of it.
I do think, however, that supermarkets should have a vegan friendly aisle. It would be easier for everyone.
Hmm...well I don't eat red meat if that means anything. Don't like it, don't trust it...but I eat chicken, cheese, eggs, drink milk etc
I know too many strict vegans and most of them tend to annoy me - be it trying to force their views on me, looking down upon me because I'm not a vegan, or just not being able to eat anything I offer. It doesn't offend me it's just annoying having to stress about what one person can eat.
My brother has been vegan for a few months, I admire him for it because I never could but I can't say 'hey do you want some such and such too while I'm up?" and then I always remember 'Oh wait...you can't eat that, get something yourself'. He's a fairly strict vegan so delves deep into gellotin (is it gellotin, can't remember) ethics and whatnot.
I'm kind of over vegetarianism...Sorry if that sounds selfish and cold. I don't mean it to be, I'm just a bit sick of it.
I do think, however, that supermarkets should have a vegan friendly aisle. It would be easier for everyone.
.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Being "over" vegetarianism.. why? What's to be over? I don't understand why you're sick of a thing which people believe in strongly enough to live their lives by.
Sorry I just found that a bit disrespectuful/ignorant. Maybe I misunderstood.
Being "over" vegetarianism.. why? What's to be over? I don't understand why you're sick of a thing which people believe in strongly enough to live their lives by.
Sorry I just found that a bit disrespectuful/ignorant. Maybe I misunderstood.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
As previously explained in this thread, a person who consumes meat is actually responsible for roughly 10X the amount of vegetation destruction than if they simply got their sustainance directly from plants.
So someone who truly hated plants would not waste their time eating plants when they could eat mainly meat and be responsible, indirectly, for far more plant destruction.
Written by: Havokist
there was once a random guy, who said-
"im not a vegetarian because i dont like killing animals for meat, im a vegetarian because i dont like vegetables"
As previously explained in this thread, a person who consumes meat is actually responsible for roughly 10X the amount of vegetation destruction than if they simply got their sustainance directly from plants.
So someone who truly hated plants would not waste their time eating plants when they could eat mainly meat and be responsible, indirectly, for far more plant destruction.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
member
80 posts
Location: the fascist states of amerika, USA
member
80 posts
Location: the fascist states of amerika, USA
Posted:
geez, am i really going to talk about this...i get so tired of explaining why i'm a vegetarian to people..they assume i'm like "oh, don't hurt the little animals"...WE are animals...animals eat animals..however, on a self-sufficient farm, you would never be able to achieve a balance with your land and consume meat on the level that we (americans) do..at one time, 80% of our population was involved in one way or another with the food we ate...now, a handful of companies put family farmers out of business using the same outdated subsidies that were set up to HELP those same family farmers...our livestock has been seperated from our agriculture..there is no rotation, no putting the manure back in the land (without shipping it across the country)...whoa...sorry..i'm going to go and talk about poi now....
geez, am i really going to talk about this...i get so tired of explaining why i'm a vegetarian to people..they assume i'm like "oh, don't hurt the little animals"...WE are animals...animals eat animals..however, on a self-sufficient farm, you would never be able to achieve a balance with your land and consume meat on the level that we (americans) do..at one time, 80% of our population was involved in one way or another with the food we ate...now, a handful of companies put family farmers out of business using the same outdated subsidies that were set up to HELP those same family farmers...our livestock has been seperated from our agriculture..there is no rotation, no putting the manure back in the land (without shipping it across the country)...whoa...sorry..i'm going to go and talk about poi now....
real eyes
realize
real lies
SILVER Member
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
Posted:
I didn't mean to sounds disrespectful or ignorant it's just ..I don't know. I's hot enough here already, I'm not going to get into such a heated debate, I should never have posted in this thread...
I didn't mean to sounds disrespectful or ignorant it's just ..I don't know. I's hot enough here already, I'm not going to get into such a heated debate, I should never have posted in this thread...
.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.
enthusiast
201 posts
Location: Australia
201 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
I'm a vegan. I love animals and they are my friends. You wouldn't eat your friends or your family would you?
Also, the dense vibration of having something killed in your system isn't natural. It's an amazing feeling to be full of natural nutrients free from harm and karma free!
I don't understand how someone could be vegetarian and then have second thoughts!... and it isn't that difficult darling. Most restaurants have vegetarian alternatives.
make friends with people that are vegetarian so you can maintain your discipline!
Don't look back! Stay vegetarian and feel great!
I'm a vegan. I love animals and they are my friends. You wouldn't eat your friends or your family would you?
Also, the dense vibration of having something killed in your system isn't natural. It's an amazing feeling to be full of natural nutrients free from harm and karma free!
I don't understand how someone could be vegetarian and then have second thoughts!... and it isn't that difficult darling. Most restaurants have vegetarian alternatives.
make friends with people that are vegetarian so you can maintain your discipline!
Don't look back! Stay vegetarian and feel great!
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
good.
call.
dave.
Written by: onewheeldave
So someone who truly hated plants would not waste their time eating plants when they could eat mainly meat and be responsible, indirectly, for far more plant destruction.
good.
call.
dave.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
i fully agree with this.
eating animal flesh keeps your own vibration lower than what it would be if you didnt eat it, which means that it'd be more difficult to transcend yourself...
not eating animal makes me feel lighter and helps my meditations to be deeper/stronger etc...
etc.
etc.
etc.
Written by: firedancingfairy
The dense vibration of having something killed in your system isn't natural.
i fully agree with this.
eating animal flesh keeps your own vibration lower than what it would be if you didnt eat it, which means that it'd be more difficult to transcend yourself...
not eating animal makes me feel lighter and helps my meditations to be deeper/stronger etc...
etc.
etc.
etc.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
old hand
1,024 posts
Location: london
1,024 posts
Location: london
Posted:
hmmmm an intresting subject, i suppose it really is simply a matter of personal choice, read through a few posts.
One odd comment, eating meat is not natural, well it kinda is, the world is a delicate eco system humans started off omivore, and things for a few hundren years were balanced.
Native americans have been eating meat but they pay respect for what they eat.
Erm, i think some of the veggies are correct in the fact that as humans in general we eat too much, and by over farming we have messed with eco-balance.
Well their are far too many humans so i guess the only logical way to correct this imbalance, is to eat people.... makes sence to me.
hmmmm an intresting subject, i suppose it really is simply a matter of personal choice, read through a few posts.
One odd comment, eating meat is not natural, well it kinda is, the world is a delicate eco system humans started off omivore, and things for a few hundren years were balanced.
Native americans have been eating meat but they pay respect for what they eat.
Erm, i think some of the veggies are correct in the fact that as humans in general we eat too much, and by over farming we have messed with eco-balance.
Well their are far too many humans so i guess the only logical way to correct this imbalance, is to eat people.... makes sence to me.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi firedancingfairy, as a recent convert to flexitarianism, I understand your sentiments, but disagree with your assertions ie.
Plants are also killed for food, so having something killed in your system is natural. We also inadvertently consume a large number of insects while asleep. Though, whether insects are sentinel beings has not been determined by the powers to be
Meat is just a natural a food source as plants, but it’s the balance that’s important. The real problem, imo, is overpopulation, and too much reliance on meat in the diet, which is a bad thing for many reasons already stated. While farming comes in for a lot of criticism, another concern I have is over fishing of our oceans.
Vegan diets are not natural because you cannot get all your nutritional requirements from plants. You have to supplement a vegan diet with Vit B 12. Also, many women on vegetarian diets suffer from anaemia due to insufficient iron in the diet. I have flexitarian friends who eat only small amounts of because they prefer meat as a source of iron.
Lastly, what is a karma free nutrient?
Hi firedancingfairy, as a recent convert to flexitarianism, I understand your sentiments, but disagree with your assertions ie.
Written by:
Also, the dense vibration of having something killed in your system isn't natural. It's an amazing feeling to be full of natural nutrients free from harm and karma free
Plants are also killed for food, so having something killed in your system is natural. We also inadvertently consume a large number of insects while asleep. Though, whether insects are sentinel beings has not been determined by the powers to be
Meat is just a natural a food source as plants, but it’s the balance that’s important. The real problem, imo, is overpopulation, and too much reliance on meat in the diet, which is a bad thing for many reasons already stated. While farming comes in for a lot of criticism, another concern I have is over fishing of our oceans.
Vegan diets are not natural because you cannot get all your nutritional requirements from plants. You have to supplement a vegan diet with Vit B 12. Also, many women on vegetarian diets suffer from anaemia due to insufficient iron in the diet. I have flexitarian friends who eat only small amounts of because they prefer meat as a source of iron.
Lastly, what is a karma free nutrient?
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
member
80 posts
Location: the fascist states of amerika, USA
member
80 posts
Location: the fascist states of amerika, USA
Posted:
just a quick thing about the iron...people who get a craving for rare meat should try cooking a veggie dish in a cast iron skillet...you get residual iron from the pan.. i had a veggie pregnancy with no problems...i ate nothing..broth, gelatin...for, mmm, 7 years and had no probs..but i found myself craving things like spinach, beans..if you listen, you'll know what the machine needs
just a quick thing about the iron...people who get a craving for rare meat should try cooking a veggie dish in a cast iron skillet...you get residual iron from the pan.. i had a veggie pregnancy with no problems...i ate nothing..broth, gelatin...for, mmm, 7 years and had no probs..but i found myself craving things like spinach, beans..if you listen, you'll know what the machine needs
real eyes
realize
real lies
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi peles_paynim,
and if your favourite tree is showing symptoms of iron deficient then just bang a nail in the trunk, yeah right.
That iron fry pan thing is another vegetarian MYTH, and has been previously discussed.
Hi peles_paynim,
and if your favourite tree is showing symptoms of iron deficient then just bang a nail in the trunk, yeah right.
That iron fry pan thing is another vegetarian MYTH, and has been previously discussed.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
According to the dictionary: sentinel n lit guard, sentry
so, some insects would be sentinel; for example many of the social insects like bees, ants and termites which live in organised colonies that have to be defended against other groups, and which post watchouts to guard against intruders.
Others, like solitary beetles, would not be sentinel.
-----------
However, I'm not sure how this relates to the vegetarian issue; perhaps-
sentient adj fml having feelings and consciousness
would be more appropriate, as many vegetarians could refrain from meat consumption on the grounds that they don't want to be responsible for the death/suffering of conscious beings with feelings.
On the question of whether insects are sentient, such vegetarians may well see the question as not particularly relevant as nightime insect consumption would be something they couldn't avoid.
Written by: Stone
We also inadvertently consume a large number of insects while asleep. Though, whether insects are sentinel beings has not been determined by the powers to be
According to the dictionary: sentinel n lit guard, sentry
so, some insects would be sentinel; for example many of the social insects like bees, ants and termites which live in organised colonies that have to be defended against other groups, and which post watchouts to guard against intruders.
Others, like solitary beetles, would not be sentinel.
-----------
However, I'm not sure how this relates to the vegetarian issue; perhaps-
sentient adj fml having feelings and consciousness
would be more appropriate, as many vegetarians could refrain from meat consumption on the grounds that they don't want to be responsible for the death/suffering of conscious beings with feelings.
On the question of whether insects are sentient, such vegetarians may well see the question as not particularly relevant as nightime insect consumption would be something they couldn't avoid.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
enthusiast
201 posts
Location: Australia
201 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Plants don't experience the pain and terror of being slaughtered, being put in cages, factory farming etc.
Meat is not a natural food source, in my opinion. I highly disagree with that statement. It is a dead animal, you are causing harm, you are an instrument in murder. Overpopulation is just one of the many factors that attribute to the negative effects associated with meat eating to the consumer, the animals, the enviroment.
Vegan diets are 'natural'... I think saying that they are unatural is a misuse of the word. Maybe you mean 'unhealthy'>? Anywho, vegan's don't survive on plants! We eat plenty of grains, legumes and other healthy products that keep us feeling great. With a diet like this you're not falling into the trap of preprepared food. Everything is made with love and attention and you truly appreciate what you're eating.
Karma free food has no ingredients that have been killed for your selfish desire.
Peace
Plants don't experience the pain and terror of being slaughtered, being put in cages, factory farming etc.
Meat is not a natural food source, in my opinion. I highly disagree with that statement. It is a dead animal, you are causing harm, you are an instrument in murder. Overpopulation is just one of the many factors that attribute to the negative effects associated with meat eating to the consumer, the animals, the enviroment.
Vegan diets are 'natural'... I think saying that they are unatural is a misuse of the word. Maybe you mean 'unhealthy'>? Anywho, vegan's don't survive on plants!
We eat plenty of grains, legumes and other healthy products that keep us feeling great. With a diet like this you're not falling into the trap of preprepared food. Everything is made with love and attention and you truly appreciate what you're eating.Karma free food has no ingredients that have been killed for your selfish desire.
Peace
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,533 posts
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Posted:
grains+legumes are plants. sorry, but they really are
my girlfriend is a vegan, but i'm one of them meat eating peoples. i could give it up. yup, i could give it up at any time i want to. i just choose not to.
Written by: firedancingfairy
Vegan diets are 'natural'... I think saying that they are unatural is a misuse of the word. Maybe you mean 'unhealthy'>? Anywho, vegan's don't survive on plants!
Peace
grains+legumes are plants. sorry, but they really are
my girlfriend is a vegan, but i'm one of them meat eating peoples. i could give it up. yup, i could give it up at any time i want to. i just choose not to.
-James
"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"
enthusiast
201 posts
Location: Australia
201 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Hahahahah
ooops
... plants just sound so leafy!
It was late at night...
Hahahahah
ooops
... plants just sound so leafy!It was late at night...
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
i wonder if meat is addictive, conspiracy theory looms!
i wonder if meat is addictive, conspiracy theory looms!
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi guys,
I tend to shoot off a bit when we start talking about the animal liberation side for vegetarianism. Though, I well understand the arguments for animal liberation, I probably have a different view than most animal libbers because I grew up on a farm chasing cows, sheep and chooks, and I know domesticated farm animals are not humans in disguise.
I really object to the use of emotive, humanising and almost hysterical anthropomorphist words like murder, cannibalism and karma in relation to domesticated farm animals. I don’t say that in a way that implies I’m cruel or farmers cruel. Farmers are generally kind hearted people.
Deliberate torture and misuse of animals is evil. I don’t support zoos, think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets, don’t think we should cull introduced deer out of our parks, and support the banning of fox hunting. The only animals I would torture would be the people who recently re-introduced foxes to Tasmania for hunting. Foxes and feral cats are the biggest threat to native animals.
Perhaps it is primitive, but as omnivores, and we Homo sapiens are omnivores, meat is part of the natural diet for our species. If people choose not to eat meat, then that’s their choice, but don’t try and make others feel guilty by humanising domesticated farm animals.
Carnivores are meat eaters, and I would consider it cruel if a carnivorous animal like a pet cat was placed on a strict vegetarian diet. Like I said previously, I consider a vegan diet unnatural because you have to supplement that diet to remain healthy. A natural diet should not need supplements.
Hi guys,
I tend to shoot off a bit when we start talking about the animal liberation side for vegetarianism. Though, I well understand the arguments for animal liberation, I probably have a different view than most animal libbers because I grew up on a farm chasing cows, sheep and chooks, and I know domesticated farm animals are not humans in disguise.
I really object to the use of emotive, humanising and almost hysterical anthropomorphist words like murder, cannibalism and karma in relation to domesticated farm animals. I don’t say that in a way that implies I’m cruel or farmers cruel. Farmers are generally kind hearted people.
Deliberate torture and misuse of animals is evil. I don’t support zoos, think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets, don’t think we should cull introduced deer out of our parks, and support the banning of fox hunting. The only animals I would torture would be the people who recently re-introduced foxes to Tasmania for hunting. Foxes and feral cats are the biggest threat to native animals.
Perhaps it is primitive, but as omnivores, and we Homo sapiens are omnivores, meat is part of the natural diet for our species. If people choose not to eat meat, then that’s their choice, but don’t try and make others feel guilty by humanising domesticated farm animals.
Carnivores are meat eaters, and I would consider it cruel if a carnivorous animal like a pet cat was placed on a strict vegetarian diet. Like I said previously, I consider a vegan diet unnatural because you have to supplement that diet to remain healthy. A natural diet should not need supplements.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
addict
546 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
addict
546 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
u will all give into bacon one day....
remember:
egg plant tastes like egg plant
but meat tatses like murder and murder tatse preety damn good.
mike.c
u will all give into bacon one day....
remember:
egg plant tastes like egg plant
but meat tatses like murder and murder tatse preety damn good.
mike.c
Rules and responsibities:
These are the ties that bind us.
We do what we do,because of who we are.
If we did otherwise,we would not be ourselves.
I will do what i have to do
And i will do what i must..
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
But that's just the thing - YOU object, fine, but it is just a matter of opinion.
I know that animals aren't "humans in disguise", they're animals, and that's why they're beautiful and shouldn't be killed as a "choice" for humans. I believe humans have evolved higher than animals and as such should attempt to transcend the cycle of kill-to-eat (not in plants, but an animal and a plant are two very different things).
I believe it is right to choose not to kill an animal when you could eat a plant. Therefore I am a vegetarian.
I'm not sure I agree when you say that you "think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets", which implies there is something wrong with owning pets. I don't see what argument you could use to support thits - it's not antural? Those pets will still be sold, often to people who don't care for animals. It supports an often cruel trade? Again, that trade is not going to stop because a few veggies decide not to keep an animal.
I think that keeping a pet is good because it ensures an animal is cared for. Just as you could argue it is natural for humans to eat meat because we've done it for thousands of years, so too could you argue it's natural that we keep animals. I don't think you can have it both ways.
And you certainly can't defend farms and then say humans shouldn't keep pets. You can't keep a farm without dogs, at least not round here (or so it seems, in my mainly-farm-based village).
*wants to say more but has lecture to go to*
Written by: Stone
I really object to the use of emotive, humanising and almost hysterical anthropomorphist words like murder, cannibalism and karma in relation to domesticated farm animals. I don’t say that in a way that implies I’m cruel or farmers cruel. Farmers are generally kind hearted people.
But that's just the thing - YOU object, fine, but it is just a matter of opinion.
I know that animals aren't "humans in disguise", they're animals, and that's why they're beautiful and shouldn't be killed as a "choice" for humans. I believe humans have evolved higher than animals and as such should attempt to transcend the cycle of kill-to-eat (not in plants, but an animal and a plant are two very different things).
I believe it is right to choose not to kill an animal when you could eat a plant. Therefore I am a vegetarian.
I'm not sure I agree when you say that you "think vegetarians should thing twice before they decide to own pets", which implies there is something wrong with owning pets. I don't see what argument you could use to support thits - it's not antural? Those pets will still be sold, often to people who don't care for animals. It supports an often cruel trade? Again, that trade is not going to stop because a few veggies decide not to keep an animal.
I think that keeping a pet is good because it ensures an animal is cared for. Just as you could argue it is natural for humans to eat meat because we've done it for thousands of years, so too could you argue it's natural that we keep animals. I don't think you can have it both ways.
And you certainly can't defend farms and then say humans shouldn't keep pets. You can't keep a farm without dogs, at least not round here (or so it seems, in my mainly-farm-based village).
*wants to say more but has lecture to go to*
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
eating apples with chopsticks can be rather difficult
167 posts
Location: Perth, Western Australia
167 posts
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted:
hey ive been a vegetarian for all my 16 years - and never have i felt any cravings, or anything like that. i guess its because i never really ate any sort of meat in the first place...
but im not planing to change my eating habits, anyway!
hey ive been a vegetarian for all my 16 years - and never have i felt any cravings, or anything like that. i guess its because i never really ate any sort of meat in the first place...
but im not planing to change my eating habits, anyway!
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Dave, domesticated farm animals are prey animals. In the wild, prey animals would have provided food for big cats and such. In captivity, they provide food for humans; something we have been doing for 10,000 years. There is no evidence that humans have evolved; regressed more likely.
Most farmers I know aren’t vegetarians. The keeping pets part was to draw an analogy between keeping animals for food and enslaving animals for self-gratification as personal pets. As you say, the pet industry is a cruel trade. And what do most pets eat? They eat meat, unless of course you have a large pet ruminant running loose in the back yard. I think keeping birds in cages is an abomination, and they already have laws in Italy to protect goldfish. To herd animals without dogs, you ride a horse or a motor bike.
Sure everyone has the right to choose not to kill an animals for food, but I don’t think you have the right to use emotional blackmail to convince others. Anyhow, at its most simplest, humans cannot live solely on animal product nor can they live solely on plant products, without suffering nutritional deficiencies. Therefore, we need a balance of both, that’s why we are omnivores.
From a DNA point of view, plants and animals are very similar genetically.
I’ll be away dancing with serpents over the weekend
Dave, domesticated farm animals are prey animals. In the wild, prey animals would have provided food for big cats and such. In captivity, they provide food for humans; something we have been doing for 10,000 years. There is no evidence that humans have evolved; regressed more likely.
Most farmers I know aren’t vegetarians. The keeping pets part was to draw an analogy between keeping animals for food and enslaving animals for self-gratification as personal pets. As you say, the pet industry is a cruel trade. And what do most pets eat? They eat meat, unless of course you have a large pet ruminant running loose in the back yard. I think keeping birds in cages is an abomination, and they already have laws in Italy to protect goldfish. To herd animals without dogs, you ride a horse or a motor bike.
Sure everyone has the right to choose not to kill an animals for food, but I don’t think you have the right to use emotional blackmail to convince others. Anyhow, at its most simplest, humans cannot live solely on animal product nor can they live solely on plant products, without suffering nutritional deficiencies. Therefore, we need a balance of both, that’s why we are omnivores.
From a DNA point of view, plants and animals are very similar genetically.
I’ll be away dancing with serpents over the weekend
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
veteran
1,459 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
my folks had a yorkshire terrier for 14 years who was a vegetarian. according to vets, they're one of the few domestic dogs which can be quite healthily fed a purely vegetarian diet. something which i always found quite strange, given that they were originally bred for hunting rabbits and such.......
Written by: Stone
And what do most pets eat? They eat meat, unless of course you have a large pet ruminant running loose in the back yard.
my folks had a yorkshire terrier for 14 years who was a vegetarian. according to vets, they're one of the few domestic dogs which can be quite healthily fed a purely vegetarian diet. something which i always found quite strange, given that they were originally bred for hunting rabbits and such.......
My mind not only wanders, it sometimes leaves completely
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
That's interesting Faberge. I also found it strange, when I was recently informed that Doberman's (hunting dogs) make excellent sheep dogs
I though most dogs, being portable garbage disposals, would be fairly tolerant to a wide range in diet. Though, perhaps eventually declining under a strict vegetarian diet.
That's interesting Faberge. I also found it strange, when I was recently informed that Doberman's (hunting dogs) make excellent sheep dogs
I though most dogs, being portable garbage disposals, would be fairly tolerant to a wide range in diet. Though, perhaps eventually declining under a strict vegetarian diet.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So in the six months I've gone from vegetarian to light carnivore back to vegetarian.
I do take fish oil because it's medicinal for a chronic health condition I have. And everyone should take fish oil. And no, flax seed oil is about 1/100th the benefit only. Until a good non-meat source for the omega-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid (EPA and DHA) is found, there just isn't a good substitute for fish oil.
I just did a huge literature review on it. It's anti-inflammatory, anti-diabetic, lowers both blood lipids (fats) and cholesterol, it lowers blood glucose, it protects against heart attacks, it may prevent cancer, it lowers blood pressure, it assists in modulating the immune system, and it's antidepressant. No heavy metals make it in to the oils. And the modern diet is about 10:1 omega-6 to omega-3's, so getting the omega-3's through fish oil is something everyone should do.
And other than that, I made the switch back on 1 January. Meat only if absolutely necessary to avoid offending a host.
So in the six months I've gone from vegetarian to light carnivore back to vegetarian.
I do take fish oil because it's medicinal for a chronic health condition I have. And everyone should take fish oil. And no, flax seed oil is about 1/100th the benefit only. Until a good non-meat source for the omega-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid (EPA and DHA) is found, there just isn't a good substitute for fish oil.
I just did a huge literature review on it. It's anti-inflammatory, anti-diabetic, lowers both blood lipids (fats) and cholesterol, it lowers blood glucose, it protects against heart attacks, it may prevent cancer, it lowers blood pressure, it assists in modulating the immune system, and it's antidepressant. No heavy metals make it in to the oils. And the modern diet is about 10:1 omega-6 to omega-3's, so getting the omega-3's through fish oil is something everyone should do.
And other than that, I made the switch back on 1 January. Meat only if absolutely necessary to avoid offending a host.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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