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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
So all this talk of New York City vs. San Francisco vs. London made me think about something.
People say that living in New York is hard. And you know what? It is. It takes a long time to get around, the ancient, creaking infrastructure is more often hindrance than help, "F*ck you!" is a standard greeting, and getting your cable fixed takes one week, minimum, and you need to present to somewhere an hour's travel away between a ludicrously short set of business hours. My brother said that "The thing about New York City is that there's a Big Hassle every month or so. This month it's the transit strike. It'll be a blizzard next and a water shut-down the next. Then it'll be summer and black-outs."
But it's so FUN to live in!
In a way, these minor hassles add to its color. I love having a nurse give me attitude because I ask her to do her job; because the New York way of handling that situation is to hand the attitude right back to her. I love having to rough it from time to time without some standard (but not strictly live-giving) utility, like no electricity, no cable modem, +electricity/-AC on a 40C day). I love the muttered, incomprehensible announcements on the trains, and the complete disinterest the guy next to you has for your own situation. Finding an apartment in New York is kinda fun because it's such a black-market, back-room sort of thing (leasing office? hah! My landlady runs out the record store downstairs, but she's amazing!)
San Francisco is so friendly, so clean, so efficient, and so easy. People are so nice and you don't have to put up with attitude all the time. The trains are beautiful examples of smoothness, and they run mostly on time. The infrastructure is all new (because the entire city had to be re-build after the earthquake in 1908) and it's not nearly as roach or mouse-infested as New York.
But if I wind up there, I have a feeling that I'll miss the struggle of living in NYC the most. The little daily annoyances that keep the place interesting.
How do you like your life? Easy or a bit rough?
EDITED_BY: Doc Lightning (1183416087)
So all this talk of New York City vs. San Francisco vs. London made me think about something.
People say that living in New York is hard. And you know what? It is. It takes a long time to get around, the ancient, creaking infrastructure is more often hindrance than help, "F*ck you!" is a standard greeting, and getting your cable fixed takes one week, minimum, and you need to present to somewhere an hour's travel away between a ludicrously short set of business hours. My brother said that "The thing about New York City is that there's a Big Hassle every month or so. This month it's the transit strike. It'll be a blizzard next and a water shut-down the next. Then it'll be summer and black-outs."
But it's so FUN to live in!
In a way, these minor hassles add to its color. I love having a nurse give me attitude because I ask her to do her job; because the New York way of handling that situation is to hand the attitude right back to her. I love having to rough it from time to time without some standard (but not strictly live-giving) utility, like no electricity, no cable modem, +electricity/-AC on a 40C day). I love the muttered, incomprehensible announcements on the trains, and the complete disinterest the guy next to you has for your own situation. Finding an apartment in New York is kinda fun because it's such a black-market, back-room sort of thing (leasing office? hah! My landlady runs out the record store downstairs, but she's amazing!)
San Francisco is so friendly, so clean, so efficient, and so easy. People are so nice and you don't have to put up with attitude all the time. The trains are beautiful examples of smoothness, and they run mostly on time. The infrastructure is all new (because the entire city had to be re-build after the earthquake in 1908) and it's not nearly as roach or mouse-infested as New York.
But if I wind up there, I have a feeling that I'll miss the struggle of living in NYC the most. The little daily annoyances that keep the place interesting.
How do you like your life? Easy or a bit rough?
EDITED_BY: Doc Lightning (1183416087)
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
I am moving to San Francisco in about two weeks, and coming from a much smaller city it really sounds more like how you just described New York. Caltrain hit a car last week and my boyfriend didn't get home from work till about 10 at night because of the delays-- previous to that were some construction delays, after a truck caught fire and melted part of an overpass somewhere leading up to the Bay Bridge (which is also in need of repairs which will happen sometime soon, for 20 year old earthquake damage). Even on a good day it takes him about an hour to get to work. The place is jam-packed with people, a lot of them insane and pretty scary.
So I guess I'll be finding out how I like it pretty soon, heh.
I am moving to San Francisco in about two weeks, and coming from a much smaller city it really sounds more like how you just described New York. Caltrain hit a car last week and my boyfriend didn't get home from work till about 10 at night because of the delays-- previous to that were some construction delays, after a truck caught fire and melted part of an overpass somewhere leading up to the Bay Bridge (which is also in need of repairs which will happen sometime soon, for 20 year old earthquake damage). Even on a good day it takes him about an hour to get to work. The place is jam-packed with people, a lot of them insane and pretty scary.
So I guess I'll be finding out how I like it pretty soon, heh.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I like choosing my challenges
Hard work all the way, unless my effort is being wasted.
TBH - I see many of those annoyances you talk of (especially commuting) as a waste of life. Once I lived in a nice unit 10 minutes ride through a green park next to a river from my work. Loved it.
Additionally, I really dislike people giving me 'attitude' for no reason - I cant imagine missing that.
so yeah - I guess I like my life easy and rough
I like choosing my challenges
Hard work all the way, unless my effort is being wasted.TBH - I see many of those annoyances you talk of (especially commuting) as a waste of life. Once I lived in a nice unit 10 minutes ride through a green park next to a river from my work. Loved it.
Additionally, I really dislike people giving me 'attitude' for no reason - I cant imagine missing that.
so yeah - I guess I like my life easy and rough
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
Doc, San Francisco is indeed a fantastic place to live, but it's not quite as rosy as you make it out. It's a small town compared to New York, L.A. and Chicago, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of the same problems bigger cities have. The efficiency of the public transportation has diminished some in the time you've been away -- it's a constant source of frustration for those who depend on it. The traffic in the city has gotten completely out of control and the ease factor has been gone since the dotcom boom & bust. Despite our Mayor's lipservice on dealing with homelessness, there hasn't been any real improvement and the homeless are everywhere, in every neighborhood (even the rich ones) and a large percentage of them are floridly psychotic and will get in your face if they think you look like the devil. We probably don't have as many homeless as NYC numberwise, but in terms of proportion to the not-homeless population, I'd wager ours is higher. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the price of real estate here (both for purchase and rentals) but the prices rival Manhattan these days. I first moved here in 1991, left in 1995, and when I came back in 1999 it was a totally different reality. Getting an apartment isn't exactly a back-room dealing sort of thing, but people do bid on apartments (RENTAL apartments). It's not as bad now as it was even five years ago, but still. I live in what is considered to be one of the nicer neighborhoods, but there were still two gang-related shootings two blocks from my apartment earlier this year. Waiting for the bus with blood stains all over the sidewalk is a little creepy.
Don't get me wrong Doc, it's still a fantastic place to live for sure. But it's still a city and has all the same city b.s. other cities have, only it's more concentrated and at the same time mitigated somewhat by the more positive aspects. I just don't want you to be disappointed or be too shocked from romanticizing it too much.
And to answer your question: the dynamic tension between ease and roughness is my ideal. Easy enough to not be a stressed-out basket case all the time, but enough roughness to keep from getting complacent.
Gnarly Cranium: don't be scared away! Come to SpinJam! Come spin fire in the park! Come to hippie hill on Sundays! Yes!
Written by: Doc Lightning
San Francisco is so friendly, so clean, so efficient, and so easy. People are so nice and you don't have to put up with attitude all the time. The trains are beautiful examples of smoothness, and they run mostly on time. The infrastructure is all new (because the entire city had to be re-build after the earthquake in 1908) and it's not nearly as roach or mouse-infested as New York.
Doc, San Francisco is indeed a fantastic place to live, but it's not quite as rosy as you make it out. It's a small town compared to New York, L.A. and Chicago, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a lot of the same problems bigger cities have. The efficiency of the public transportation has diminished some in the time you've been away -- it's a constant source of frustration for those who depend on it. The traffic in the city has gotten completely out of control and the ease factor has been gone since the dotcom boom & bust. Despite our Mayor's lipservice on dealing with homelessness, there hasn't been any real improvement and the homeless are everywhere, in every neighborhood (even the rich ones) and a large percentage of them are floridly psychotic and will get in your face if they think you look like the devil. We probably don't have as many homeless as NYC numberwise, but in terms of proportion to the not-homeless population, I'd wager ours is higher. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the price of real estate here (both for purchase and rentals) but the prices rival Manhattan these days. I first moved here in 1991, left in 1995, and when I came back in 1999 it was a totally different reality. Getting an apartment isn't exactly a back-room dealing sort of thing, but people do bid on apartments (RENTAL apartments). It's not as bad now as it was even five years ago, but still. I live in what is considered to be one of the nicer neighborhoods, but there were still two gang-related shootings two blocks from my apartment earlier this year. Waiting for the bus with blood stains all over the sidewalk is a little creepy.
Don't get me wrong Doc, it's still a fantastic place to live for sure. But it's still a city and has all the same city b.s. other cities have, only it's more concentrated and at the same time mitigated somewhat by the more positive aspects. I just don't want you to be disappointed or be too shocked from romanticizing it too much.
And to answer your question: the dynamic tension between ease and roughness is my ideal. Easy enough to not be a stressed-out basket case all the time, but enough roughness to keep from getting complacent.
Gnarly Cranium: don't be scared away! Come to SpinJam! Come spin fire in the park! Come to hippie hill on Sundays! Yes!
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
GOLD Member
Lv15 Ranger
1,489 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Lv15 Ranger
1,489 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I like the struggle, but appreciate being able to relax.
Being challenged, having to struggle through life is what makes people stronger, more experienced and more capable. If that struggle was taken away and life was made easy in every single way, I'd be bored. My job for example provides no challenge - I find myself easily bored and considering changing to a more hectic job, even if it isn't as well paying.
'Druids always choose the hard way; it encourages natural selection!'
I like the struggle, but appreciate being able to relax.
Being challenged, having to struggle through life is what makes people stronger, more experienced and more capable. If that struggle was taken away and life was made easy in every single way, I'd be bored. My job for example provides no challenge - I find myself easily bored and considering changing to a more hectic job, even if it isn't as well paying.
'Druids always choose the hard way; it encourages natural selection!'
Kupo!
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
I feel a little like an anthropologist or archaeologist, actually. I've heard so much about San Francisco, the various fascinating cultures and movements that have sprang up and swept through that region, you know all the bohemian, hippy, whatever sorts of things, the whole reputation... and I fell in love with the place the first time I saw it, it's been my dream to live there since I was 14. but I've also heard how it's changed in the last couple decades. So expensive now, so much more closed than it used to be. Actually a significant portion of the hippies came to where I'm living now, in Eugene, and I'm not sure how much is left in the City itself, after so much has been gutted and fed to the sharks. I've also never lived anywhere with so many buildings and people and pavement-- San Francisco alone has something like twice the population of my entire STATE. My cousin lived in the bay area for a number of years and did get mugged at one point, that's another thing I've never had to think about much. Course I've visited LA, and.. yeah, no kidding, SF could seem downright idyllic next to some of THAT.
Still though, I can kinda see what Doc is saying really. There's so much energy in a big city, so much texture and movement and character, so many possibilities, and pride to be had in being part of it and standing up to it. I'm scared to death but after way too many years stranded in the bland, pathetic place I came from, I'm looking forward to this.
Written by: _khan_Ooh! Fantastic, I'd love to! ...As soon as I figure out where 'hippie hill' is, heh. I'm going to be living in North Beach, so I should have decent access to a lot of interesting stuff as soon as I figure out where/what it is.
Gnarly Cranium: don't be scared away! Come to SpinJam! Come spin fire in the park! Come to hippie hill on Sundays! Yes!
I feel a little like an anthropologist or archaeologist, actually. I've heard so much about San Francisco, the various fascinating cultures and movements that have sprang up and swept through that region, you know all the bohemian, hippy, whatever sorts of things, the whole reputation... and I fell in love with the place the first time I saw it, it's been my dream to live there since I was 14. but I've also heard how it's changed in the last couple decades. So expensive now, so much more closed than it used to be. Actually a significant portion of the hippies came to where I'm living now, in Eugene, and I'm not sure how much is left in the City itself, after so much has been gutted and fed to the sharks. I've also never lived anywhere with so many buildings and people and pavement-- San Francisco alone has something like twice the population of my entire STATE. My cousin lived in the bay area for a number of years and did get mugged at one point, that's another thing I've never had to think about much. Course I've visited LA, and.. yeah, no kidding, SF could seem downright idyllic next to some of THAT.
Still though, I can kinda see what Doc is saying really. There's so much energy in a big city, so much texture and movement and character, so many possibilities, and pride to be had in being part of it and standing up to it. I'm scared to death but after way too many years stranded in the bland, pathetic place I came from, I'm looking forward to this.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
See and I love Oregon and miss it terribly...
I think I like being near the struggle but being removed from it. The plight in Milwaukee is similar (a gang shooting this year, try one or two a day here). Having spent nearly a year down there and getting to know people, Milwaukee holds a place close to my heart. I want to make it better for the people who cannot leave. I want to make it someplace that they can be proud to say we're from. If your from Wisconsin and say you're from Milwaukee, they think you're a gang-banger and all bad. Milwaukee has a lot of problems, mental health facilities are shut down, rehab centers run out of money, cops are jaded, drugs and gangs are literally everywhere. I only lived there for a year but it made an impression on me. Mom always said I wanted to save the lost puppy dogs, and I found a really big one
See and I love Oregon and miss it terribly...
I think I like being near the struggle but being removed from it. The plight in Milwaukee is similar (a gang shooting this year, try one or two a day here). Having spent nearly a year down there and getting to know people, Milwaukee holds a place close to my heart. I want to make it better for the people who cannot leave. I want to make it someplace that they can be proud to say we're from. If your from Wisconsin and say you're from Milwaukee, they think you're a gang-banger and all bad. Milwaukee has a lot of problems, mental health facilities are shut down, rehab centers run out of money, cops are jaded, drugs and gangs are literally everywhere. I only lived there for a year but it made an impression on me. Mom always said I wanted to save the lost puppy dogs, and I found a really big one
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
Rock is dead, long live paper and scissors
197 posts
Location: The sea, United Kingdom
Rock is dead, long live paper and scissors
197 posts
Location: The sea, United Kingdom
Posted:
Just been watching the guys in Iraq on the news an stumble onto this thread. Going back there next year for my third time. I know this thread is purely objective and not in any way trying to draw comparrisims to people in Iraq, Africa etc but really makes me laugh. I mean we all complain if the internet go's down for an hour or if we have to work a little unpaid overtime. I complain when I work a seventy two hour shift and I'm having to make stuff to fix an engine cus the government can't/won't pay to supply the stores. I still feel bad when I look at the army though being shot at by people there suppsosed to be helping who want to kill them and they have to dig trenches to sleep in. Well, off my 
and finish my 
I prefer the easy life, there's enough hardship and suffering out there. Experience of it will help you grow as a person but too much will twist you. To wish it on yourself is silly, even if it is just the little things like a tube strike or a powercut.
Just been watching the guys in Iraq on the news an stumble onto this thread. Going back there next year for my third time. I know this thread is purely objective and not in any way trying to draw comparrisims to people in Iraq, Africa etc but really makes me laugh. I mean we all complain if the internet go's down for an hour or if we have to work a little unpaid overtime. I complain when I work a seventy two hour shift and I'm having to make stuff to fix an engine cus the government can't/won't pay to supply the stores. I still feel bad when I look at the army though being shot at by people there suppsosed to be helping who want to kill them and they have to dig trenches to sleep in. Well, off my and finish my I prefer the easy life, there's enough hardship and suffering out there. Experience of it will help you grow as a person but too much will twist you. To wish it on yourself is silly, even if it is just the little things like a tube strike or a powercut.
Eagles may soar but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.
Telepath wanted, you know where to apply.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
tasmania
tasmania "but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
me, it is a bit of both too..,
I live in the jungle now, and I love some aspects of it, but other times I feel I am struggling. Like will there ever ever be a day, a whole day, where nothing bites me? please oh please. What a fantasy that has become.Or I dont have to face some poisonous dangerous scary critter? I dont have power half the time, and so storing energy in batteries, planning things like that, and getting sufficient water, and setting up the lanterns for when I dont have power, and carrying in all the stuff I want and need- cause there is no store, and is no road-- well, some days it is just annoying.
Others, I like how it slows me down, makes me strong and aware, and active in my own life. Take nothing for granted, to be sure!
me, it is a bit of both too..,
I live in the jungle now, and I love some aspects of it, but other times I feel I am struggling. Like will there ever ever be a day, a whole day, where nothing bites me? please oh please. What a fantasy that has become.Or I dont have to face some poisonous dangerous scary critter? I dont have power half the time, and so storing energy in batteries, planning things like that, and getting sufficient water, and setting up the lanterns for when I dont have power, and carrying in all the stuff I want and need- cause there is no store, and is no road-- well, some days it is just annoying.
Others, I like how it slows me down, makes me strong and aware, and active in my own life. Take nothing for granted, to be sure!
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
SILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
I appreciate that you're seeing the positives here Doc, and I can see how it might be.. interesting for a couple of months but I really wouldn't be able to enjoy those annoyances long term.
nice quote!
I appreciate that you're seeing the positives here Doc, and I can see how it might be.. interesting for a couple of months but I really wouldn't be able to enjoy those annoyances long term.
Written by: darkness-before
there's enough hardship and suffering out there. Experience of it will help you grow as a person but too much will twist you.
nice quote!
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
I agree with the above, but for some reason at present I feel like I'm having to put up with the 'struggle' (commuting and living in a fairly rough bit of London) so that I can save money, have a good job in the city and be better off in years to come... but sometimes I think the logic in this is really flawed and it might not be worth it!
I mean, in my heart and mind I'd rather be somewhere in the south-west, in the countryside where I grew up, doing something physical or outdoors that doesn't involve working in an office every day... why am I here rather than there?
I guess it's just the way life is... either that or I really have got my priorities wrong!
Written by: Pyrolific
TBH - I see many of those annoyances you talk of (especially commuting) as a waste of life....
Additionally, I really dislike people giving me 'attitude' for no reason - I cant imagine missing that.
I agree with the above, but for some reason at present I feel like I'm having to put up with the 'struggle' (commuting and living in a fairly rough bit of London) so that I can save money, have a good job in the city and be better off in years to come... but sometimes I think the logic in this is really flawed and it might not be worth it!
I mean, in my heart and mind I'd rather be somewhere in the south-west, in the countryside where I grew up, doing something physical or outdoors that doesn't involve working in an office every day... why am I here rather than there?
I guess it's just the way life is... either that or I really have got my priorities wrong! Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: Gnarly Cranium
ARISE, THREAD FROM LIKE FOREVER AGO! MUWAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Okay, I've been living in San Francisco since 2007.
....Aaaaaand I'm officially a bad person cause I still don't know where the hell hippie hill is.
Been so busy with school I've not been around here, and actually with the low ceilings and all I've barely practiced at all. Haven't even been to any dance classes in a while either and I'm really feeling the deprivation here.
Originally Posted By: Gnarly Cranium
Written by: _khan_Ooh! Fantastic, I'd love to! ...As soon as I figure out where 'hippie hill' is, heh. I'm going to be living in North Beach, so I should have decent access to a lot of interesting stuff as soon as I figure out where/what it is.
Gnarly Cranium: don't be scared away! Come to SpinJam! Come spin fire in the park! Come to hippie hill on Sundays! Yes!
ARISE, THREAD FROM LIKE FOREVER AGO! MUWAHAHAHAAAA!!!
Okay, I've been living in San Francisco since 2007.
....Aaaaaand I'm officially a bad person cause I still don't know where the hell hippie hill is.
Been so busy with school I've not been around here, and actually with the low ceilings and all I've barely practiced at all. Haven't even been to any dance classes in a while either and I'm really feeling the deprivation here.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
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