Forums > Technical Discussion > Odour Reduced Kerosine?
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141 posts
Location: Melbourne, the new Land of Nod
141 posts
Location: Melbourne, the new Land of Nod
Posted:
Hi all, I just came accross a new fuel the the other day, odour reduced kero. And I want to know a bit about it.It's great stuff, first of all it barely smells! Yay!Burning wise it is a liitle hotter than normal kero, and it's lovely to breathe with, I find not only does it taste a hell of a lot better (if it wasn't poison I might consider drinkg the stuff) and I get a lot better plumage (perhaps my technique is improving?). But there are a couple of things I want to know about it:1. Is this stuff firewater in a cheaper container? (i.e. is this noname brand firewater?)2. How carcenagenic is this stuff?Any info will be fantastic so please, help me out.------------------A wise man once said to me, "Hey! You! Get out of my wardrobe!" and in a way, I guess he was right.
Hi all, I just came accross a new fuel the the other day, odour reduced kero. And I want to know a bit about it.It's great stuff, first of all it barely smells! Yay!Burning wise it is a liitle hotter than normal kero, and it's lovely to breathe with, I find not only does it taste a hell of a lot better (if it wasn't poison I might consider drinkg the stuff) and I get a lot better plumage (perhaps my technique is improving?). But there are a couple of things I want to know about it:1. Is this stuff firewater in a cheaper container? (i.e. is this noname brand firewater?)2. How carcenagenic is this stuff?Any info will be fantastic so please, help me out.------------------A wise man once said to me, "Hey! You! Get out of my wardrobe!" and in a way, I guess he was right.
A wise man once said to me, Hey! You! Get out of my wardrobe! and in a way, I guess he was right.
member
263 posts
Location: Holiday, FL, USA
263 posts
Location: Holiday, FL, USA
Posted:
i would check the Fuels page.. theres a link to it on the homepage, on the far left. if i were clever like most of the helpful people on this board, i'd provide you a link. maybe someday i'll learn.
from what i read though, it doesn't sound good to have additives in your kero to make it smell better..
i would check the Fuels page.. theres a link to it on the homepage, on the far left. if i were clever like most of the helpful people on this board, i'd provide you a link. maybe someday i'll learn.
from what i read though, it doesn't sound good to have additives in your kero to make it smell better.. BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
For anyone to give you any specific information, Phuzzie, we need the brand and name of the product as on the label, preferably it's chemical name too.Deodorized Kerosene is a seperate product to Pegasol 3440 Special. Peg 3440 is often rebranded by places as firebreathing and performance fuel.NOTE : This not to say that there aren't genuine shops out their that have developed their own firewater-type product. But be aware that some have rebranded in the past.Give us some more info or call the place you got the deod-kero and ask them for an MSDS sheet on the it.Then call your local supplier of secialist fire-fuel and get the MSDS off them as well. If they don't supply an MSDS I would never buy fuel off them again, as they MUST let you know the properties of anything you will be in close contact with or put in your mouth.Compare the two MSDS's and see which one is less toxic, don't forget to look at skin and eye toxicity, as well as membrane (nose mouth etc) toxicity.Then check out the properties of the fumes of the fuel burning as well, as this will be most of what you will breath in when twirling, as opposed to firebreathing, which will befuel absorption and accidental inhalation.Let me know the name of the product and I'll try to find out more for you...Oh, and although there isn't much of a difference between kero and Peg3440 in toxicity, it's actually the stinky smelling kero that is safer by a few wee points...------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 26 March 2002).]
For anyone to give you any specific information, Phuzzie, we need the brand and name of the product as on the label, preferably it's chemical name too.Deodorized Kerosene is a seperate product to Pegasol 3440 Special. Peg 3440 is often rebranded by places as firebreathing and performance fuel.NOTE : This not to say that there aren't genuine shops out their that have developed their own firewater-type product. But be aware that some have rebranded in the past.Give us some more info or call the place you got the deod-kero and ask them for an MSDS sheet on the it.Then call your local supplier of secialist fire-fuel and get the MSDS off them as well. If they don't supply an MSDS I would never buy fuel off them again, as they MUST let you know the properties of anything you will be in close contact with or put in your mouth.Compare the two MSDS's and see which one is less toxic, don't forget to look at skin and eye toxicity, as well as membrane (nose mouth etc) toxicity.Then check out the properties of the fumes of the fuel burning as well, as this will be most of what you will breath in when twirling, as opposed to firebreathing, which will befuel absorption and accidental inhalation.Let me know the name of the product and I'll try to find out more for you...Oh, and although there isn't much of a difference between kero and Peg3440 in toxicity, it's actually the stinky smelling kero that is safer by a few wee points...------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 26 March 2002).]
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GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I fink it's bodgy cos I seen it only sold in Bodgy North Melbourne supermarkets. And if Wayne Carey was a 'roo then you've got something to worry about - fire fuel from north melbourne! I'll shut up now...
I fink it's bodgy cos I seen it only sold in Bodgy North Melbourne supermarkets. And if Wayne Carey was a 'roo then you've got something to worry about - fire fuel from north melbourne! I'll shut up now...
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I found a parafin/kero additive that helps de-odourise your fuel. You add a 1cc to a 4 litre tub and it stops smelling so potent and smells slightly of flowers! Can't remember the name tho. Will try to remember for tomorrow.
I found a parafin/kero additive that helps de-odourise your fuel. You add a 1cc to a 4 litre tub and it stops smelling so potent and smells slightly of flowers! Can't remember the name tho. Will try to remember for tomorrow.
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
wow man that's the most useful chemical since ... um silly putty
wow man that's the most useful chemical since ... um silly putty
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
member
40 posts
Location: brisbane, queensland, australia?
40 posts
Location: brisbane, queensland, australia?
Posted:
Firstly, a big 'what Charles said'. He's dead right about checking out the MSDS, and in particular the various kinds of toxicity listed on it eg) inhalation, ingestion, eyes, mouth, skin and combustion products. The info isn't just for firebreathing. So give the company a call and as Charles puts it:"If they don't supply an MSDS I would never buy fuel off them again"It doesn't matter if you intend putting it in your mouth, twirling it, drinking it or shampooing your hair with it - a fuel is a flammable liquid, which is a dangerous good, which means an MSDS MUST be supplied on request. If they don't supply one, it means theres something very dodgy going on.That said we get "odourless kerosene" from the supermarkets up here, and its pretty similar to normal kero. I prefer stinky old kero to Pegasol 3440 because its more viscous and more readily available.In answer to Question 1, I'd hazard a guess it isn't firewater - you can check this when you get your MSDS by comparing the ingredients. From the relevant MSDS the ingredients are:Firesol (pegasol 3440) - Gooble Warming: solvent naptha, medium aliphatic, CAS number 64742-88-7Firewater - Juggleart: Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates, CAS number 64742-88-7You can get the complete MSDS by contacting the suppliers.maeon.
Firstly, a big 'what Charles said'. He's dead right about checking out the MSDS, and in particular the various kinds of toxicity listed on it eg) inhalation, ingestion, eyes, mouth, skin and combustion products. The info isn't just for firebreathing. So give the company a call and as Charles puts it:"If they don't supply an MSDS I would never buy fuel off them again"It doesn't matter if you intend putting it in your mouth, twirling it, drinking it or shampooing your hair with it - a fuel is a flammable liquid, which is a dangerous good, which means an MSDS MUST be supplied on request. If they don't supply one, it means theres something very dodgy going on.That said we get "odourless kerosene" from the supermarkets up here, and its pretty similar to normal kero. I prefer stinky old kero to Pegasol 3440 because its more viscous and more readily available.In answer to Question 1, I'd hazard a guess it isn't firewater - you can check this when you get your MSDS by comparing the ingredients. From the relevant MSDS the ingredients are:Firesol (pegasol 3440) - Gooble Warming: solvent naptha, medium aliphatic, CAS number 64742-88-7Firewater - Juggleart: Aliphatic Petroleum Distillates, CAS number 64742-88-7You can get the complete MSDS by contacting the suppliers.maeon.
Where in the world is the island I'm on?
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
ohmygod! you guys, please stop using kerosene! after a few years you will start to see all your firey friends coughing all the time, and then the sickness- ahhhh! please, i just posted a reply and it accidentally came up as a techinical topic- "fuels" and you may want to check it out. i have been experimenting with fuels for a while and i believe vehemently that all fire dancers need to stop using kerosine. dancing is a heavy-breathing oriented activity! and also- with most odor reduced fuels, all except the ultra pure lamp oil- they make them odor reduced by adding in naptha, or someting like it- which is the most toxic thing of all. unfortunately coleman has some naptha and you can use denatured alcohol instead, but it evaporates a little faster. i would say steer clear of even the odor reduced Kerosene. try to use as much highly alcoholic fuel as you can while still thinning it out with lamp oil to make it less explosive. oh also- i've been fire breathing for 7 years or so, and have always used lamp oil, which is similar to kerosine. boy was that stupid. after a while, my immune system simply shut down! i would like to tell everyone that the toxicity in fire dancing is a big issue, esp. in the long term. now i use rum for breathing.
ohmygod! you guys, please stop using kerosene! after a few years you will start to see all your firey friends coughing all the time, and then the sickness- ahhhh! please, i just posted a reply and it accidentally came up as a techinical topic- "fuels" and you may want to check it out. i have been experimenting with fuels for a while and i believe vehemently that all fire dancers need to stop using kerosine. dancing is a heavy-breathing oriented activity! and also- with most odor reduced fuels, all except the ultra pure lamp oil- they make them odor reduced by adding in naptha, or someting like it- which is the most toxic thing of all. unfortunately coleman has some naptha and you can use denatured alcohol instead, but it evaporates a little faster. i would say steer clear of even the odor reduced Kerosene. try to use as much highly alcoholic fuel as you can while still thinning it out with lamp oil to make it less explosive. oh also- i've been fire breathing for 7 years or so, and have always used lamp oil, which is similar to kerosine. boy was that stupid. after a while, my immune system simply shut down! i would like to tell everyone that the toxicity in fire dancing is a big issue, esp. in the long term. now i use rum for breathing.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Once again, check out the MSDS sheets on any fuel, and compare the risks across all of them.
A VERY common mistake is to think that if it doesn't smell bad, it's better for you...In most cases, the opposite is true.
So far, I've found nothing better than kerosene that is readily available in NZ, but I do know that breathing it in, and it's smoke and splashing myself with it is not good for me.
As for firebreathing, I would suggest practicing with water 99% of the time and only using fuel for performances or very infrequent sessions.
If you do fire breath on even a slightly regular basis, I'd reccomend having a detox regime, such as the Liver Cleansing Diet and doing that several tiems a year.
DO NOT BE FOOLED into thinking if you haven't burnt yourself its alright, all of this stuff is toxic and we all have to weigh up the benefits versus the detriments...
Play safe everyone.
Once again, check out the MSDS sheets on any fuel, and compare the risks across all of them.
A VERY common mistake is to think that if it doesn't smell bad, it's better for you...In most cases, the opposite is true.
So far, I've found nothing better than kerosene that is readily available in NZ, but I do know that breathing it in, and it's smoke and splashing myself with it is not good for me.
As for firebreathing, I would suggest practicing with water 99% of the time and only using fuel for performances or very infrequent sessions.
If you do fire breath on even a slightly regular basis, I'd reccomend having a detox regime, such as the Liver Cleansing Diet and doing that several tiems a year.
DO NOT BE FOOLED into thinking if you haven't burnt yourself its alright, all of this stuff is toxic and we all have to weigh up the benefits versus the detriments...
Play safe everyone.
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member
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
A number of months ago police foresics called to obtain some info on the fuel we sell. They we interested in the residues left after using it as an accelerent in arson fires. In talking to him, I asked about kero and its constituents. I found it quite disturbing the additives to kero.
1. an additive to colour it blue - most likely a lead based compound
2. an additive to give it an odour
3. an additive to give it a foul taste
4. and kero can be up to 20% distillate(?why, can anyone say)- distillate has many additives in it as well particularly lubricants like sulphur
With all these additives, why would anyone want to use it, especially for breathing.
A number of months ago police foresics called to obtain some info on the fuel we sell. They we interested in the residues left after using it as an accelerent in arson fires. In talking to him, I asked about kero and its constituents. I found it quite disturbing the additives to kero.
1. an additive to colour it blue - most likely a lead based compound
2. an additive to give it an odour
3. an additive to give it a foul taste
4. and kero can be up to 20% distillate(?why, can anyone say)- distillate has many additives in it as well particularly lubricants like sulphur
With all these additives, why would anyone want to use it, especially for breathing.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
hey, charles... if you can't get anything besides kerosene perhaps you could try denatured alcohol. you could even mix denatured alcohol in with your kerosine. the idea is to take a light molecule(alcohol, coleman fuel, jet fuel, etc.) and mix it with a heavy molecule (diesel, kerosene, parrafin).the light molecules make it burn cleaner and the heavy molecules make it less explosive. the light molecules also burn faster and the heavy slower. so you can adjust the fuel to the needs of what you are soaking. i've even heard of aviation grade kerosene that burns clean but i haven't had time to check it out yet.apparetnly it is just super refined kerosene, which would be cool because kerosene is the safest fuel in terms of fire safety and crowd safety. go light-um big fire now. hey
hey, charles... if you can't get anything besides kerosene perhaps you could try denatured alcohol. you could even mix denatured alcohol in with your kerosine. the idea is to take a light molecule(alcohol, coleman fuel, jet fuel, etc.) and mix it with a heavy molecule (diesel, kerosene, parrafin).the light molecules make it burn cleaner and the heavy molecules make it less explosive. the light molecules also burn faster and the heavy slower. so you can adjust the fuel to the needs of what you are soaking. i've even heard of aviation grade kerosene that burns clean but i haven't had time to check it out yet.apparetnly it is just super refined kerosene, which would be cool because kerosene is the safest fuel in terms of fire safety and crowd safety. go light-um big fire now. hey
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
arashi, u gotta be careful
don't mix yer fuels
kero is immiscible in water
alcohols are miscible in water
therefore these two compounds will not mix satifactorily
i sugggest that u stick with kero for its flash point safety more than anything
arashi, u gotta be careful
don't mix yer fuels
kero is immiscible in water
alcohols are miscible in water
therefore these two compounds will not mix satifactorily
i sugggest that u stick with kero for its flash point safety more than anything
member
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
a big hear hear also, to Charles. (and maeon too?)
The only way to truly know what is in your fuel is to get the MSDS from the manufacturer/supplier.
I can't imagine why you'd habitually use a fuel and not want to know what was in it??
But then I suppose it takes all sorts eh?
I posted some info a while ago now but I'll repeat it.. in Indonesia in some village maybe 18 months ago now, they mixed their lamp oil with kerosene and there was a few kabooms and fires spread throughout the building in which these lamps were housed. Mixing fuels I wouldn't recommend unless you're a chemist or you have spoken to a reliable chemist about the fuels?
To be on the safe side anyway...
But its all toxic as someone pointed out and its all terrible for your body regardless of whether it stinks, smells good, is pink with purple dots, can do a lil dance, make awesome mango smoothies, fly you to the moon.. hmm think I stopped thinking about fuels somewhere there..
But you know what I mean..
a big hear hear also, to Charles. (and maeon too?)
The only way to truly know what is in your fuel is to get the MSDS from the manufacturer/supplier.
I can't imagine why you'd habitually use a fuel and not want to know what was in it??
But then I suppose it takes all sorts eh?
I posted some info a while ago now but I'll repeat it.. in Indonesia in some village maybe 18 months ago now, they mixed their lamp oil with kerosene and there was a few kabooms and fires spread throughout the building in which these lamps were housed. Mixing fuels I wouldn't recommend unless you're a chemist or you have spoken to a reliable chemist about the fuels?
To be on the safe side anyway...
But its all toxic as someone pointed out and its all terrible for your body regardless of whether it stinks, smells good, is pink with purple dots, can do a lil dance, make awesome mango smoothies, fly you to the moon.. hmm think I stopped thinking about fuels somewhere there..
But you know what I mean..
The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King
poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
Arashi: Actually, a friend picked up some "Jet A" aviation-grade kerosene, which supposedly is highly refined. Tried lighting his poi with it. It was some of the skankiest fuel I've seen/smelled.
Gooble: when you say "distillate," distillate of what?
Splat: kerosene and lamp oil are basically the same stuff--mixing them shouldn't really be an issue. If there was an explosion, I have a hard time imagining that it would be because of this. Lamp oil, if anything, seems to be a little less volatile than kerosene.
Arashi: Actually, a friend picked up some "Jet A" aviation-grade kerosene, which supposedly is highly refined. Tried lighting his poi with it. It was some of the skankiest fuel I've seen/smelled.
Gooble: when you say "distillate," distillate of what?
Splat: kerosene and lamp oil are basically the same stuff--mixing them shouldn't really be an issue. If there was an explosion, I have a hard time imagining that it would be because of this. Lamp oil, if anything, seems to be a little less volatile than kerosene.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
well, lamp oil and kerosene are basically the same thing. and as far as the "distillates," as far as i know that means "shit that burns that we used as filler" and you don't want them. and as far as the fuel mixing, i've had no problems as it's all just goin onto the wick. somtimes i even soak seperately. and let me reiterate- using alcoholic fuels is dangerous, and they should only be transported in what is called a "safety can," which has a lid that is spring loaded and closes itself and is made of thick steel. help me spread the word to all the people about this! for me using alcoholic fuels is not really a choice, after 7 years it is not an option to use kerosene. have you ever tried lighting up in the day? the amounts of smoke that comes off is mindblowing. plus i use wicks that are huge by most standards. actually we use the biggest wicks of anyone we've ever met. kerosene is the safest cause of the flash point and parrafin burns cleaner and is almost the same thing. so i use paraffin in place of kerosene always. if the cops ask, tell them it's kerosene! and thanks adam for the heads up on the aviation kero- one less thing to do! oh, and the explosion. i think that it's easy for people to think that we're safe just because it is kerosene. esp. if it's warm outside, all fuels are dangerous! the main three things that can go wrong in a fire show- first and foremost is the fuel area. this is hands down where the most safety should be involved, as this is where explosions can occur. always make sure they are out of people's reach, and it is wonderful to have someone that can keep smokers away, as they tend to go out back and smoke, usu. right where your fuel is! 2nd is wicks or fuel accidentally flying off and hitting a crowd member who may be wearing flammables. 3rd is the drunk bastards that see some pretty fire and decide that they want to touch it. the things i've seen! always have someone who watches the crowd exclusively, here come the drunks! at raves this isn't such a problem. then it's the wiggers. wiggers like me.
well, lamp oil and kerosene are basically the same thing. and as far as the "distillates," as far as i know that means "shit that burns that we used as filler" and you don't want them. and as far as the fuel mixing, i've had no problems as it's all just goin onto the wick. somtimes i even soak seperately. and let me reiterate- using alcoholic fuels is dangerous, and they should only be transported in what is called a "safety can," which has a lid that is spring loaded and closes itself and is made of thick steel. help me spread the word to all the people about this! for me using alcoholic fuels is not really a choice, after 7 years it is not an option to use kerosene. have you ever tried lighting up in the day? the amounts of smoke that comes off is mindblowing. plus i use wicks that are huge by most standards. actually we use the biggest wicks of anyone we've ever met. kerosene is the safest cause of the flash point and parrafin burns cleaner and is almost the same thing. so i use paraffin in place of kerosene always. if the cops ask, tell them it's kerosene! and thanks adam for the heads up on the aviation kero- one less thing to do! oh, and the explosion. i think that it's easy for people to think that we're safe just because it is kerosene. esp. if it's warm outside, all fuels are dangerous! the main three things that can go wrong in a fire show- first and foremost is the fuel area. this is hands down where the most safety should be involved, as this is where explosions can occur. always make sure they are out of people's reach, and it is wonderful to have someone that can keep smokers away, as they tend to go out back and smoke, usu. right where your fuel is! 2nd is wicks or fuel accidentally flying off and hitting a crowd member who may be wearing flammables. 3rd is the drunk bastards that see some pretty fire and decide that they want to touch it. the things i've seen! always have someone who watches the crowd exclusively, here come the drunks! at raves this isn't such a problem. then it's the wiggers. wiggers like me.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
member
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
71 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
adamrice
distillate is another name for deisel
i presume that the smokiness that kero is renowned for could be partly attributed to this
adamrice
distillate is another name for deisel
i presume that the smokiness that kero is renowned for could be partly attributed to this
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
okay guys, i just consulted my resident chemist, and distillates are actually the name for all fuels that have been separated down from crude oil by distillation. so all are distillates, and when on an ingredients list it means, again, the other fuels that are added to the mix in order to achieve certain properties. and they are probably gonna be lighter molecules to increase the combustibility. but that's a guess. it's like "natural and artificial flavors"
okay guys, i just consulted my resident chemist, and distillates are actually the name for all fuels that have been separated down from crude oil by distillation. so all are distillates, and when on an ingredients list it means, again, the other fuels that are added to the mix in order to achieve certain properties. and they are probably gonna be lighter molecules to increase the combustibility. but that's a guess. it's like "natural and artificial flavors"
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
so pleased to hear so many people who *do* care about the fuels they are using...
..we've taken to using the ShellSol (which is same as pegasol) for twirling to avoid the additives + smell.. but having compared the burn (during the day when you can see the smoke) to kero we've found they do produce almost the same amount of yucky black, bad-for-your-lungs smoke... just hopefully not containing as many of these nasty ambiguous chemicals that are added to household kero...
...so if you are twirling a lot and want to get hold of the things like pegasol or ShellSol - just look up yellow pages under chemical suppliers and ask for a clean-burning organic solvent... tell them what you're using it for and they'll be able to suggest an equivalent (if not these products) - but as has been said lots of times in this thread already, ask for the MSDS and find out what you're really dealing with...
You can usually buy it in 20L drums and it equates with the kind of price you pay for kero in the supermarket...
As Maeon said, it does behave slightly differently to kero - but much more like it in terms of flashpoint etc than alcohols and other hotter fuels - after a few burns you get used to the differences.
so pleased to hear so many people who *do* care about the fuels they are using...
..we've taken to using the ShellSol (which is same as pegasol) for twirling to avoid the additives + smell.. but having compared the burn (during the day when you can see the smoke) to kero we've found they do produce almost the same amount of yucky black, bad-for-your-lungs smoke... just hopefully not containing as many of these nasty ambiguous chemicals that are added to household kero...
...so if you are twirling a lot and want to get hold of the things like pegasol or ShellSol - just look up yellow pages under chemical suppliers and ask for a clean-burning organic solvent... tell them what you're using it for and they'll be able to suggest an equivalent (if not these products) - but as has been said lots of times in this thread already, ask for the MSDS and find out what you're really dealing with...
You can usually buy it in 20L drums and it equates with the kind of price you pay for kero in the supermarket...
As Maeon said, it does behave slightly differently to kero - but much more like it in terms of flashpoint etc than alcohols and other hotter fuels - after a few burns you get used to the differences.
GOLD Member
.
420 posts
Location: United Kingdom
.
420 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
c'mon guys, are we fire twirlers or wot?
I thought this came with the territory!
well..except in the US, where Colemans BBQ fluid is THE daddy.
c'mon guys, are we fire twirlers or wot?
I thought this came with the territory!
well..except in the US, where Colemans BBQ fluid is THE daddy.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
Posted:
I'd really like to find something that's not bad for your health, OR the environment.... Do you think there would be such a thing? I'd think that anything that burns probably gives off some kind of yuck! What can we do?
I'd really like to find something that's not bad for your health, OR the environment.... Do you think there would be such a thing? I'd think that anything that burns probably gives off some kind of yuck! What can we do?
*:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*
poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
Moon Pixie--
Do a search of these forums on "biodiesel". This is basically highly refined soybean oil (or oil from some other organic matter, but usually soybeans, it seems). Biodiesel proponents will drink it by the glassful to show that it is benign. I've read the MSDSs for a few grades, and indeed, it's mild stuff.
*BUT* when you burn it, it is very smoky and smelly--as bad as kerosene, perhaps worse. And it smells really weird. And for all we know, even though the stuff is benign when its "raw", it probably has some nastiness in it when burned. I mean, shoot, they say that any grilled food will contain carcinogens.
Moon Pixie--
Do a search of these forums on "biodiesel". This is basically highly refined soybean oil (or oil from some other organic matter, but usually soybeans, it seems). Biodiesel proponents will drink it by the glassful to show that it is benign. I've read the MSDSs for a few grades, and indeed, it's mild stuff.
*BUT* when you burn it, it is very smoky and smelly--as bad as kerosene, perhaps worse. And it smells really weird. And for all we know, even though the stuff is benign when its "raw", it probably has some nastiness in it when burned. I mean, shoot, they say that any grilled food will contain carcinogens.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
member
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
hey adam I was just relaying information that came from Channel 7 News crew in Indonesia... not questioning how similar the chemical compounds of these substances were or anything like that, and I have no exact idea about what certain temperatures/conditions would cause an explosion from the mixing of the two.
Although I believe with fuels, and indeed with many other things, the 1 in 500 or even the 1 in 12 million chance of something going wrong is bound to happen sooner or later.
hey adam I was just relaying information that came from Channel 7 News crew in Indonesia... not questioning how similar the chemical compounds of these substances were or anything like that, and I have no exact idea about what certain temperatures/conditions would cause an explosion from the mixing of the two.
Although I believe with fuels, and indeed with many other things, the 1 in 500 or even the 1 in 12 million chance of something going wrong is bound to happen sooner or later.
The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
Posted:
Yeah, I have searched for stuff on the net and Biodiesel was one of them, but I think I remember reading something naff about it. A shame really. . . Just when you think you're onto something...
Yeah, I have searched for stuff on the net and Biodiesel was one of them, but I think I remember reading something naff about it. A shame really. . . Just when you think you're onto something...
*:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
..and unfortunately, can't seem to get hold of any biofuels 'round here to even try out...
..and unfortunately, can't seem to get hold of any biofuels 'round here to even try out...
member
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
383 posts
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posted:
heya bec... if you wanna go 50/50 in like 500 litres at 98 cents a litre or something then umm.... okay well maybe not 50/50..how about 10/90 ? heheh then I know where to get some...
There is something particularly unfunky about it too...
AND on top of that its crap for firebreathing compaired to the 'normal' stuff.
hmmm...
heya bec... if you wanna go 50/50 in like 500 litres at 98 cents a litre or something then umm.... okay well maybe not 50/50..how about 10/90 ? heheh then I know where to get some...
There is something particularly unfunky about it too...
AND on top of that its crap for firebreathing compaired to the 'normal' stuff.
hmmm...
The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King
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