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Forums > Technical Discussion > Shape of flame?
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1 post
Location: Apple Valley, CA, USA
1 post
Location: Apple Valley, CA, USA
Posted:
Hi everybody, I'm new here and just had a quick question. I'm planning on getting a set of fire poi very soon but I can’t decide between the cathedral or monkeyfist....I have read many other post with the pros and cons, but I hadn't heard much about how the flame looks while lit. Does one look bigger or better? Do you have any links to pics of them lit? I'm assuming the Monkeyfist looks rounder. What’s better for wraps? Any opinions would be great.
Also, what is the difference between the #15 NPS and #13 SS size ball chains? I understand one can hold more weight that the other, but are there any other pros/cons? Thanks, any help is appreciated.
Hi everybody, I'm new here and just had a quick question. I'm planning on getting a set of fire poi very soon but I can’t decide between the cathedral or monkeyfist....I have read many other post with the pros and cons, but I hadn't heard much about how the flame looks while lit. Does one look bigger or better? Do you have any links to pics of them lit? I'm assuming the Monkeyfist looks rounder. What’s better for wraps? Any opinions would be great.
Also, what is the difference between the #15 NPS and #13 SS size ball chains? I understand one can hold more weight that the other, but are there any other pros/cons? Thanks, any help is appreciated.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Flames are always flame shaped
The spahe of the poi doen't make much difference . Things like height, amount and type of wick and surface area affect how large the flame is and how long it lasts.
I believe that as the monkey fists have a larger surface area they produce a bit more flame intensity, but I don't think it's too much. The monkey fists are a bit heavier (and as they're slightly larger will be heavier still with fuel in them).
I find the smaller ball chain is nicer to use if you want to shorten the chain by wrapping it round your hand.
Hope that answered your questions
Flames are always flame shaped
The spahe of the poi doen't make much difference . Things like height, amount and type of wick and surface area affect how large the flame is and how long it lasts.I believe that as the monkey fists have a larger surface area they produce a bit more flame intensity, but I don't think it's too much. The monkey fists are a bit heavier (and as they're slightly larger will be heavier still with fuel in them).
I find the smaller ball chain is nicer to use if you want to shorten the chain by wrapping it round your hand.
Hope that answered your questions
BRONZE Member
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
Posted:
I disagree. Having seen various 2.5" and 4" tubecores and 2 sizes of cathedrals burn, I can honestly say that the overall shape of the flame while spinning IS affected by the shape of the poi head. Cathedrals seem to have not only a bigger flame than tubecores, but a very "fire-ball" like appearance. The flame is big and round with a trail of flame behind it. Tubecores tend to look more like flame glowsticks to me. The flame looks skinny, with less of a trail behind it. Doesn't look right to me. Granted surface area may still be the main factor in the SIZE of the flame, the shape can still affect it's appearance
Also, I think proportion is what affects the shape of the flame. If the wick is much longer than it is wide, the flame won't look right. If it is about the same lenth as it's width, then the flame will be proportional (read- "more fire-ballish").
*DISCLAIMER* I have not personally seen monkey fists burn, so I can't comment on their appearance, I would like to know myself!
That's good to hear that they seem to have a slightly larger flame. I would like to try these out sometime. The weight doesn't bother me, and I actually want some heavier wicks to build up my endurance!
Agreed, the larger chain can be a challenge to hang onto that way. I like the handles available here on HOP if you want to shorten the chain like that as well. Other handles seem to have a large ring on them, and it's just not comfortable to wrap around my hand to shorten the chain. The handles on HOP are very low profile and are easy to wrap around the hand.
On the topic of wrapping, my experience is that the lighter a wick is, the better bounce-back it will have for wraps. The con of this however, is that lighter wicks like tubecores don't look near as good or burn for near as long. I'm getting used to having bruised up arms from doing wraps at high speed with my fire wicks. I wear a long sleeved shirt to keep from singing too many hairs on my arms though, lol. Summers coming though, so I'm sure it will be back to sleeveless shirts for spinning soon.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dom
Flames are always flame shaped
I disagree. Having seen various 2.5" and 4" tubecores and 2 sizes of cathedrals burn, I can honestly say that the overall shape of the flame while spinning IS affected by the shape of the poi head. Cathedrals seem to have not only a bigger flame than tubecores, but a very "fire-ball" like appearance. The flame is big and round with a trail of flame behind it. Tubecores tend to look more like flame glowsticks to me. The flame looks skinny, with less of a trail behind it. Doesn't look right to me. Granted surface area may still be the main factor in the SIZE of the flame, the shape can still affect it's appearance
Also, I think proportion is what affects the shape of the flame. If the wick is much longer than it is wide, the flame won't look right. If it is about the same lenth as it's width, then the flame will be proportional (read- "more fire-ballish").
*DISCLAIMER* I have not personally seen monkey fists burn, so I can't comment on their appearance, I would like to know myself!
Quote:
I believe that as the monkey fists have a larger surface area they produce a bit more flame intensity, but I don't think it's too much. The monkey fists are a bit heavier (and as they're slightly larger will be heavier still with fuel in them).
That's good to hear that they seem to have a slightly larger flame. I would like to try these out sometime. The weight doesn't bother me, and I actually want some heavier wicks to build up my endurance!
Quote:
I find the smaller ball chain is nicer to use if you want to shorten the chain by wrapping it round your hand.
Agreed, the larger chain can be a challenge to hang onto that way. I like the handles available here on HOP if you want to shorten the chain like that as well. Other handles seem to have a large ring on them, and it's just not comfortable to wrap around my hand to shorten the chain. The handles on HOP are very low profile and are easy to wrap around the hand.
On the topic of wrapping, my experience is that the lighter a wick is, the better bounce-back it will have for wraps. The con of this however, is that lighter wicks like tubecores don't look near as good or burn for near as long. I'm getting used to having bruised up arms from doing wraps at high speed with my fire wicks. I wear a long sleeved shirt to keep from singing too many hairs on my arms though, lol. Summers coming though, so I'm sure it will be back to sleeveless shirts for spinning soon.
"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"
"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"
-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
Quote:Quote:
Originally posted by Dom
*DISCLAIMER* I have not personally seen monkey fists burn, so I can't comment on their appearance, I would like to know you spin, none of this noticing the weight differance as the fuel burns offmyself!
monkies make a very nice flame, yeah they are heavy, but they flame goes for a very long time, the shape of the flame is consistant and fireball shaped, the cathedrals are lighter (or at least they feel that way) also have a very nice flame and burning time, i like monkies for wraps but cathedrals overall for spinning
i do meteors so its the same thing as spinning 2 monkyfist wicks on one hand, if you want a very big flame and good burning time, get a pair of double 4inch wicks, but i have to warn you the flames are huge and there are exposed metal parts from which ive gotten some nasty blisters
oh yeah, and tubecore suck like mad......
just some of me thoughts..................
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prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I have only ever used tubecores wicks for my staffs, and have been using them for professional performances, busking and several stage shows.
Can't ever recall somone tellin me the flames were too small or anything like that....
PLUS the staffs I've had and got with two lots of wick on each end (still tubecore) give off two seperate fireballs per end whenever i do a burnoff!
I'm not saying that the others do or don't have advantages, but feela bit confused as to why they are so bad?
Perhaps the tubecores you've seen have been made with loosley woven wick, or maybe not much wick at all.
My staffs have 1-4 feet per end...is this more or less than the tubecores you guys have seen... ?
I have only ever used tubecores wicks for my staffs, and have been using them for professional performances, busking and several stage shows.
Can't ever recall somone tellin me the flames were too small or anything like that....
PLUS the staffs I've had and got with two lots of wick on each end (still tubecore) give off two seperate fireballs per end whenever i do a burnoff!
I'm not saying that the others do or don't have advantages, but feela bit confused as to why they are so bad?
Perhaps the tubecores you've seen have been made with loosley woven wick, or maybe not much wick at all.
My staffs have 1-4 feet per end...is this more or less than the tubecores you guys have seen... ?
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SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Charles, I think the discussion's about poi and the differences in tubecore and cathedral.
I prefer cathedrals over tubecore for poi for a few of the reasons stated above, but still have essentially tubecore style wicking on my staff set, and yep still get fireballs etc. But have considered several times changing to cathedrals for my staff set.
There are however some hoppers who have attached cathedrals on to their staff set, and maybe they can comment on the differences between those two in relation to a staff.
Where's a good hop experimental type that needs a research project?
Charles, I think the discussion's about poi and the differences in tubecore and cathedral.
I prefer cathedrals over tubecore for poi for a few of the reasons stated above, but still have essentially tubecore style wicking on my staff set, and yep still get fireballs etc. But have considered several times changing to cathedrals for my staff set.
There are however some hoppers who have attached cathedrals on to their staff set, and maybe they can comment on the differences between those two in relation to a staff.
Where's a good hop experimental type that needs a research project?
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
However, both forms of wiking apply to things other than poi, and so when asking about appearance, any tool is valid. Though I have to admit, I use tube core on staves and cathedral on poi. I will have to go think of why, other than the usual...ease of attaching them stuff.
Quote:
Charles, I think the discussion's about poi and the differences in tubecore and cathedral.
However, both forms of wiking apply to things other than poi, and so when asking about appearance, any tool is valid. Though I have to admit, I use tube core on staves and cathedral on poi. I will have to go think of why, other than the usual...ease of attaching them stuff.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
member
186 posts
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA
Posted:
It seems that the consensus is that surface area has alot to do with flame size. And as I said in my previous post, it seems that wicks that are long and skinny don't have much of a fire ball flame or tail/tracer behind the flame.
I would bet money that a tube core wick that had enough wicking to make it as wide as it is tall would look fairly decent. However, the only ones I've seen burn in person are longer than they are wide (i.e. 4" tubecores that aren't very thick). If I were going to make tubecores, I would start with about 5 feet or so of 3" wick, and wrap it around my tube core until the thing was about 3-3.5" wide (don't know how many feet this would take, but I'm sure less than 5, lol). This would yield an okay surface area, and probably a decently "fire-ball" shaped flame. By virtue of the fact that it's a tube core, the burn time would probably still be inferior to the cathedral, but who knows, it may have a decent burn time.
It seems that the consensus is that surface area has alot to do with flame size. And as I said in my previous post, it seems that wicks that are long and skinny don't have much of a fire ball flame or tail/tracer behind the flame.
I would bet money that a tube core wick that had enough wicking to make it as wide as it is tall would look fairly decent. However, the only ones I've seen burn in person are longer than they are wide (i.e. 4" tubecores that aren't very thick). If I were going to make tubecores, I would start with about 5 feet or so of 3" wick, and wrap it around my tube core until the thing was about 3-3.5" wide (don't know how many feet this would take, but I'm sure less than 5, lol). This would yield an okay surface area, and probably a decently "fire-ball" shaped flame. By virtue of the fact that it's a tube core, the burn time would probably still be inferior to the cathedral, but who knows, it may have a decent burn time.
"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"
"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"
-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)
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