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Forums > Social Discussion > Point out what passages are flawed in the bible.
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190 posts
190 posts
Posted:
Buzaruka decided to make this challenge in onewheeldaves "religion a way forward" thread, even though it's been clearly stated that onewheeldave didn't want such activity in his thread so I thought I would take the initiative and create this thread for buzaruka.
Heres my passage and my issue with it
and in the ten commandments it says though shall not kill.
a flaw? seems to me it is indeed a flaw.
Buzaruka decided to make this challenge in onewheeldaves "religion a way forward" thread, even though it's been clearly stated that onewheeldave didn't want such activity in his thread so I thought I would take the initiative and create this thread for buzaruka.
Heres my passage and my issue with it
Quote:
Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."
and in the ten commandments it says though shall not kill.
a flaw? seems to me it is indeed a flaw.
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Well at least I know that I will now have twirling buddys when Im in hell, cause every one is now being condemed!! HOORAY!~
Well at least I know that I will now have twirling buddys when Im in hell, cause every one is now being condemed!! HOORAY!~
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
SILVER Member
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Firstly: As you set the rules, it is your job to play by them. I have read you say a few times in this thread already that only YOU and God are concerned with your behaviour in this world. Therefore, in the position of all fairness, Valura and HER God are concerned with hers, it is NOT your place to decide to deviate from the rules just because she did. Be responsible for your OWN behaviour, instead of pointing the finger and saying "well i can because she did."
Secondly: NEVER at any point in time in either of my posts have I told you that your opinion was Wrong.
Not once.
Can I suggest that instead of being a self righteous antagonist, you actually READ what people are writing to you?
And if you are going to be all righteous about what Valura has offered up in the way of contradictions, why not click on the link that Valura left at the end of her post, and explain why Matthew, Mark, Luke and James all have different accounts of Jesus death and ressurection and reappearance to the apostles.
I would very much like to see you explain that.
Here's an explanation of my own:
The disciples, four very groovy men, who were all loved by Jesus and present at his death, are also four very HUMAN men, who are (as you keep reminding us so kindly) Sinners. As they are human (sinners) they are not infallible.
The entire New Testament was written as personal accounts, and letters to the church, not as the old testament i an 'inspired by god' scenario.
It's not surprising that each disciple has different accounts of Jesus' death, yet it is surprising at the vast differences between them.
In the meantime, as I've not actually told you how 'wrong' you are, feel free to take me OFF your 'to preach to' list, as I will be VERY offended if you continue.
Written by: Burzaruka
Flynt, when I first spoke of Valura going to hell, she had yet to bring any passages to the table. So, since she wasnt playing by the rules, I didnt play by the rules and told her the truth.
If you know the truth and refuse to accept it, you will pay the price of your defiance and that payment is eternity in hell. I'm sorry if I was preaching, but dont tell me I am wrong unless you are willing for me to tell you the same.
Firstly: As you set the rules, it is your job to play by them. I have read you say a few times in this thread already that only YOU and God are concerned with your behaviour in this world. Therefore, in the position of all fairness, Valura and HER God are concerned with hers, it is NOT your place to decide to deviate from the rules just because she did. Be responsible for your OWN behaviour, instead of pointing the finger and saying "well i can because she did."
Secondly: NEVER at any point in time in either of my posts have I told you that your opinion was Wrong.
Not once.
Can I suggest that instead of being a self righteous antagonist, you actually READ what people are writing to you?
And if you are going to be all righteous about what Valura has offered up in the way of contradictions, why not click on the link that Valura left at the end of her post, and explain why Matthew, Mark, Luke and James all have different accounts of Jesus death and ressurection and reappearance to the apostles.
I would very much like to see you explain that.
Here's an explanation of my own:
The disciples, four very groovy men, who were all loved by Jesus and present at his death, are also four very HUMAN men, who are (as you keep reminding us so kindly) Sinners. As they are human (sinners) they are not infallible.
The entire New Testament was written as personal accounts, and letters to the church, not as the old testament i an 'inspired by god' scenario.
It's not surprising that each disciple has different accounts of Jesus' death, yet it is surprising at the vast differences between them.
In the meantime, as I've not actually told you how 'wrong' you are, feel free to take me OFF your 'to preach to' list, as I will be VERY offended if you continue.
Currently on the right side up of the world.
How do you change this thing???
1,903 posts
Location: Behind the couch...
1,903 posts
Location: Behind the couch...
Posted:
but...
It's arsn... or possibly arson if you want it right... not a spin off of a human body part, if you wanting the true spelling for members names in the future, try reading their profiles, it's how I learn't to spell your name.
but...Written by:
Originally posted by Burzaruka
Arsen
It's arsn... or possibly arson if you want it right... not a spin off of a human body part, if you wanting the true spelling for members names in the future, try reading their profiles, it's how I learn't to spell your name.
I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.
"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men
SILVER Member
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
Posted:
To all
In my opinion blind faith is just that, blind.
The strict adherence to religious dogma and obedience to a code of laws written over two millennia ago is illogical, but not only this.
It is also a sign of moral and intellectual cowardice.
The religous writtings throughout the ages have been an attempt to codify certain behaviours within societies, but it must be recognised that most of these societies have had their time in the sun, and have passed in to history.
Just as we would not apply the laws of a medieval or roman judicial system to our society, we should not apply the religous laws from thousands of years ago today.
We should rather create within ourselves a synthesis, a blending of those parts of these writings which strike a cord within our hearts, and strive to create our own small heaven here, which we can all share in, each day as it comes.
Sleep well, dream not of today,
Martin
To all
In my opinion blind faith is just that, blind.
The strict adherence to religious dogma and obedience to a code of laws written over two millennia ago is illogical, but not only this.
It is also a sign of moral and intellectual cowardice.
The religous writtings throughout the ages have been an attempt to codify certain behaviours within societies, but it must be recognised that most of these societies have had their time in the sun, and have passed in to history.
Just as we would not apply the laws of a medieval or roman judicial system to our society, we should not apply the religous laws from thousands of years ago today.
We should rather create within ourselves a synthesis, a blending of those parts of these writings which strike a cord within our hearts, and strive to create our own small heaven here, which we can all share in, each day as it comes.
Sleep well, dream not of today,
Martin
SILVER Member
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Posted:
i think burz, that perhaps you have to consider that the only person that you have proven your bible to, is yourself - and perhaps any other christians who visit this thread.
My name is Christian, But I think Burz is full of something elts!
Remember Lie is in the center of BeLieVe!
and Rules are for fools, but thank God for Rules!
( I guess you could swap Rules for Religion and have a valid outcome )
As for Hell... Heven is when Im in It, Hell is when Im Not!
Heven and Hell are here on Earth, my friend.
When you are going through Hell... Keep Going!
Also, To say the Bible is always Right, is silly! The bible was written a very long time ago and although most may be aplicable today, alot of it is just 'hear say' passed down through hundreds of years, and translated into many languages. Im sure Jesus was a good guy, but feeding all those people with a fish and a little bread, then turnning water into wine... I think someone was drinking a little bit to much wine when they wrote that!!!
They Have Never Found Nowas Ark, Or the Garden Of Eaden, (you would think they would have preserved that kind of stuff)?? Where are there any One Eyed Giants, that could have been knocked down by some kid and a stone? (David and Gelith) Fairy Tails I say!
How could our whole Population on the Earth come from Two People? Black, White, Asien, Hispanic!?!
Prove to me this!!!!!!
If
i think burz, that perhaps you have to consider that the only person that you have proven your bible to, is yourself - and perhaps any other christians who visit this thread.
My name is Christian, But I think Burz is full of something elts!
Remember Lie is in the center of BeLieVe!
and Rules are for fools, but thank God for Rules!
( I guess you could swap Rules for Religion and have a valid outcome
)As for Hell... Heven is when Im in It, Hell is when Im Not!
Heven and Hell are here on Earth, my friend.
When you are going through Hell... Keep Going!
Also, To say the Bible is always Right, is silly! The bible was written a very long time ago and although most may be aplicable today, alot of it is just 'hear say' passed down through hundreds of years, and translated into many languages. Im sure Jesus was a good guy, but feeding all those people with a fish and a little bread, then turnning water into wine... I think someone was drinking a little bit to much wine when they wrote that!!!
They Have Never Found Nowas Ark, Or the Garden Of Eaden, (you would think they would have preserved that kind of stuff)?? Where are there any One Eyed Giants, that could have been knocked down by some kid and a stone? (David and Gelith) Fairy Tails I say!
How could our whole Population on the Earth come from Two People? Black, White, Asien, Hispanic!?!
Prove to me this!!!!!!
If
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
"by not proving something wrong... you prove it right..."
interesting theory.
burz, you completely missed my point my last post. i was not attack you or your religion, just stating how we percieve the same information different way - because of our different faiths and beliefs.
what we percieve as flaws, you percive as proof. im NOT saying who is right and wrong. im merely looking at this from the anthropological/psychological point of view.
i was hoping to tale steer the conversation into a different direction, but instead you launched into me.
my study of religion was a hobby. not a thesis. i interpreted the same bible and the same texts as you a different way. that is all my point was. i can understand your perspective, and respect that. can you understand my point?
im stepping back from this thread because, quite frankly, its pissing me off. i manage to have epic debates with my fundamentalist christian flatmates, without any condemnation, accusation, anger, hurt, or misunderstanding - even unintentional. we usually both sides concede that there is alot in this world we dont know. thats not an accusation against you burz, its just how the thread has turned out.
peace, love and hugz to all.
"by not proving something wrong... you prove it right..."
interesting theory.
burz, you completely missed my point my last post. i was not attack you or your religion, just stating how we percieve the same information different way - because of our different faiths and beliefs.
what we percieve as flaws, you percive as proof. im NOT saying who is right and wrong. im merely looking at this from the anthropological/psychological point of view.
i was hoping to tale steer the conversation into a different direction, but instead you launched into me.
my study of religion was a hobby. not a thesis. i interpreted the same bible and the same texts as you a different way. that is all my point was. i can understand your perspective, and respect that. can you understand my point?
im stepping back from this thread because, quite frankly, its pissing me off. i manage to have epic debates with my fundamentalist christian flatmates, without any condemnation, accusation, anger, hurt, or misunderstanding - even unintentional. we usually both sides concede that there is alot in this world we dont know. thats not an accusation against you burz, its just how the thread has turned out.
peace, love and hugz to all.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
BRONZE Member
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sporadically Prodigal
2,758 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
*is watching burzaruka*
Please refer to the site rules.... by condemning HOPpers to hell, you are not abiding by these guidelines.
*is watching burzaruka*
Please refer to the site rules.... by condemning HOPpers to hell, you are not abiding by these guidelines.
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
urgh - what a surprise this thread has ended like this..not!
as I dont see how the deadlock inherent in this thread can be resolved, I'm going to close it.
if you have a problem with this action PM me, and we mods will consider re-opening it.
----A Day passes-----
ok, having discussed this with some of the other mods, this thread is going to be reopened, in the hope that some good can come of it.
please remember, that this is a discussion forum. You must respect people's opinions, even if they do not fit into your particular belief structure (I'm looking at you Burz).
*takes off mods hat*
anyone entering this discussion should have put on their flame proof suits, becuase it was bleedingly obvious it was heading straight into volcanic territory.
*puts mods hat back on, and lurks back to technical threads*
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1086312480)
urgh - what a surprise this thread has ended like this..not!
as I dont see how the deadlock inherent in this thread can be resolved, I'm going to close it.
if you have a problem with this action PM me, and we mods will consider re-opening it.
----A Day passes-----
ok, having discussed this with some of the other mods, this thread is going to be reopened, in the hope that some good can come of it.
please remember, that this is a discussion forum. You must respect people's opinions, even if they do not fit into your particular belief structure (I'm looking at you Burz).
*takes off mods hat*
anyone entering this discussion should have put on their flame proof suits, becuase it was bleedingly obvious it was heading straight into volcanic territory.
*puts mods hat back on, and lurks back to technical threads*
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1086312480)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
*thwacks cooled thread back into play*
now remeber kids - play nice.
Josh
*thwacks cooled thread back into play*
now remeber kids - play nice.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
How do you change this thing???
1,903 posts
Location: Behind the couch...
1,903 posts
Location: Behind the couch...
Posted:
Personally, I was happier to have this thread closed, I didn't like seeing my friends continually told how their going to hell. If I wanted to hear this, I'd go to church.
This thread turned into something ugly, and after having time to cool down, and re-read, some very vaild points were given, and they were all pushed aside, and claimed to be thought up and/or words of something like the "Devils"...
I would like to know the reasons behind why this thread was re-opened.
Personally, I was happier to have this thread closed, I didn't like seeing my friends continually told how their going to hell. If I wanted to hear this, I'd go to church.
This thread turned into something ugly, and after having time to cool down, and re-read, some very vaild points were given, and they were all pushed aside, and claimed to be thought up and/or words of something like the "Devils"...
I would like to know the reasons behind why this thread was re-opened.
I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.
"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Since I don't have a NIV (or any kind of bible) to hand at the moment, I'm going to stay out of finding contradictions, but I would like to make a comment about proving things right or wrong.
I have, right here, on the table next to me, a copy of The Neverending Story by Michael Ende.
If anyone can prove to me that it never actually happened and that it's a complete fabrication, then I'll accept your proof that it's just a story.
However, if no-one can give me conclusive proof, it must have happened, right?
Isn't there the possibility that the bible was just made up?
Until someone proves otherwise, it remains a possibility. One that personally, I find easier to believe.
Hmm, I've started to ramble a bit now, I think I'll just leave it at that
Written by: Burzaruka
By simply not proving the Bible wrong, you prove it right.
Since I don't have a NIV (or any kind of bible) to hand at the moment, I'm going to stay out of finding contradictions, but I would like to make a comment about proving things right or wrong.
I have, right here, on the table next to me, a copy of The Neverending Story by Michael Ende.
If anyone can prove to me that it never actually happened and that it's a complete fabrication, then I'll accept your proof that it's just a story.
However, if no-one can give me conclusive proof, it must have happened, right?
Written by: Shirlock Holmes
When all possibilities have been removed, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Isn't there the possibility that the bible was just made up?
Until someone proves otherwise, it remains a possibility. One that personally, I find easier to believe.
Hmm, I've started to ramble a bit now, I think I'll just leave it at that
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I dunno, I sort of find the whole idea of the thread to be offensive. Is it really any better to start a thread basically intended to poke holes in some people's dearly held beliefs than to tell everyone that they're going to hell?
Oh, and as a Jew, I didn't believe in hell. Now as an athiest, I really don't believe in hell.
I dunno, I sort of find the whole idea of the thread to be offensive. Is it really any better to start a thread basically intended to poke holes in some people's dearly held beliefs than to tell everyone that they're going to hell?
Oh, and as a Jew, I didn't believe in hell. Now as an athiest, I really don't believe in hell.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
Im going to let the adminy ppl who thought it should stay open field that one Arsn.
Josh
Im going to let the adminy ppl who thought it should stay open field that one Arsn.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
I was quite happy that this was closed and I will NOT be posting in here at all any more as my opinion hasnt been respected and I have been treated without respect
I was quite happy that this was closed and I will NOT be posting in here at all any more as my opinion hasnt been respected and I have been treated without respect
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
SILVER Member
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Intrepid Penguin
5,635 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Also preferred this thread closed.
Can I ask why it was reopened? Seems a vicious cycle to me.
Also preferred this thread closed.
Can I ask why it was reopened? Seems a vicious cycle to me.
Currently on the right side up of the world.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It's worth noting that he kept his word on this.
I believe that most of the religious people who use the 'you're going to hell cos you don't believe...' line, genuinely aren't aware that it can cause offence, I'm sure Burz meant no harm.
One good side of this thread is that people have stood up said 'it's offensive', which is going to be useful to those who didn't know that.
Written by: Burzaruka
........and after I have replied to this I will take a break from this thread for a little while.
It's worth noting that he kept his word on this.
I believe that most of the religious people who use the 'you're going to hell cos you don't believe...' line, genuinely aren't aware that it can cause offence, I'm sure Burz meant no harm.
One good side of this thread is that people have stood up said 'it's offensive', which is going to be useful to those who didn't know that.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
member
56 posts
Location: USA
member
56 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I really hope that I didn't offend anyone. I am a christian and do believe the bible to be true. However I know that not everyone does. I don't think that reopening this thread will do anyone any good. As was stated before any contradictions listed will be explained away no matter what because we believe. It is a losing battle because both sides believe very strongly that they are right. I am not going to preach to anyone here, but would like to say that at my church we are taught to love and respect people. We accept everyone and welcome them. I love ALL people and am very upset by how this thread has turned out.
I really hope that I didn't offend anyone. I am a christian and do believe the bible to be true. However I know that not everyone does. I don't think that reopening this thread will do anyone any good. As was stated before any contradictions listed will be explained away no matter what because we believe. It is a losing battle because both sides believe very strongly that they are right. I am not going to preach to anyone here, but would like to say that at my church we are taught to love and respect people. We accept everyone and welcome them. I love ALL people and am very upset by how this thread has turned out.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
fine - I think there is enough closure sentiment here that this really needs to be closed. Sorry for the mixup folks.
Josh
fine - I think there is enough closure sentiment here that this really needs to be closed. Sorry for the mixup folks.
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
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