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Forums > Social Discussion > footage contradicts london police on brazilian killing
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
did y'all see the footage released, showing the "terrorist suspect" calmly wlaking along and the police sneak up behind him and waste him?
https://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings
Looks like the police lied, but video surveilence tells no lies.
I hope they punish those responcible. Really, I know y'all are freaked out right now (for good reason), but giving police authority to waste anybody, without fear of repercusions, is a very dangerous precident.
did y'all see the footage released, showing the "terrorist suspect" calmly wlaking along and the police sneak up behind him and waste him?
https://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/london_bombings
Looks like the police lied, but video surveilence tells no lies.
I hope they punish those responcible. Really, I know y'all are freaked out right now (for good reason), but giving police authority to waste anybody, without fear of repercusions, is a very dangerous precident.
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
you think we gave them that authority?
Also the 'mistake' (and i use this lightly) has already been admitted. Not that it makes it any better, just that we are aware of what happened, yes.
you think we gave them that authority?
Also the 'mistake' (and i use this lightly) has already been admitted. Not that it makes it any better, just that we are aware of what happened, yes.
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
as far as i know that footage hasn't been released - do you have a link dan?
the incident has been reported on by itv news who received leaked reports from the ongoing investigation.
this is why i'm glad police don't have guns all the time
cole. x
as far as i know that footage hasn't been released - do you have a link dan?
the incident has been reported on by itv news who received leaked reports from the ongoing investigation.
this is why i'm glad police don't have guns all the time
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Yep, it's pretty shocking but almost expected. The Evening Standard is already calling for police blood. Although funnily enough they were forgiving the police back when it happened!
Most politicians here are understandably waiting for the official Independent Police Complaints Commision findings. If they find that the shooting was in error the officer in question will be charged with manslaughter or murder.
I remember when I first heard about the shooting my gut instinct was that they shot the wrong man. The witness accounts all seemed somewhat different to each other; people tend to be rather open to suggestion about what they've seen. I still feel more intimidated by the police with guns than backpack wearing Muslims. Maybe that's because I go through Stockwell every day. On the 21st I saw some pretty nervous looking police with big guns and that's not good!
I'm going to wait for the IPCC report to hear what all the stories are. Any which way, I feel really sorry for him and his family.
Yep, it's pretty shocking but almost expected. The Evening Standard is already calling for police blood. Although funnily enough they were forgiving the police back when it happened!
Most politicians here are understandably waiting for the official Independent Police Complaints Commision findings. If they find that the shooting was in error the officer in question will be charged with manslaughter or murder.
I remember when I first heard about the shooting my gut instinct was that they shot the wrong man. The witness accounts all seemed somewhat different to each other; people tend to be rather open to suggestion about what they've seen. I still feel more intimidated by the police with guns than backpack wearing Muslims. Maybe that's because I go through Stockwell every day. On the 21st I saw some pretty nervous looking police with big guns and that's not good!
I'm going to wait for the IPCC report to hear what all the stories are. Any which way, I feel really sorry for him and his family.
GOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
Posted:
The main question i keep wondering, Mr Menezes was shot 8 times, SEVEN of those time in the head, how and why can you shoot someone 7 times in the head!!!
CONSPIRACY ALL THE WAY!!!
The main question i keep wondering, Mr Menezes was shot 8 times, SEVEN of those time in the head, how and why can you shoot someone 7 times in the head!!!
CONSPIRACY ALL THE WAY!!!
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind
Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife
"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Not a conspiracy, Will. Just overzealous police.
And they need to be tried and convicted of murder and locked up for life.
Because whether it's a terrorist bomb or police bullets to the head, you're just as dead. And THIS is why sacrificing liberty for safety gets you neither.
Not a conspiracy, Will. Just overzealous police.
And they need to be tried and convicted of murder and locked up for life.
Because whether it's a terrorist bomb or police bullets to the head, you're just as dead. And THIS is why sacrificing liberty for safety gets you neither.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Posted:
there was a certain founding father who said that, mike.
I believe the rest of the quote involved surrender of firearms to the government and police and military.
"those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither" or somehting like that.
Man, I really do hope The UK gets this worked out. Y'all are some good people, and don't deserve this. Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along". And I really do think that officer did what he thought was the right thing, at the time...a little over kill, yea...But, to his credit (stupidity). Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed. So mistaking a brazilian for an arab is quite possible, I guess.... IT is sad. And the government saying it is ok, (or lieing about it, covering it up) is no good.
Here in the USA, the arabs have been sneaking across the Mexican boarder to the USA for quite some time now. About one in ten illegals who get caught are OTM (Other Than Mexican) which includes all others, but a significan't number now are arab males 18-35 sometimes in large groups, the arabs cut their hair and have a mustache, and dress in the same cloths as mexicans, and try and sneak across the boarder, possing as mexicans. scary stuff huh? That's why USA citizens vollunteeered to help stop it. The higher ups in the boarder patrol flipped out LOL... whining and moaning...
there was a certain founding father who said that, mike.
I believe the rest of the quote involved surrender of firearms to the government and police and military.
"those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither" or somehting like that.
Man, I really do hope The UK gets this worked out. Y'all are some good people, and don't deserve this. Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along". And I really do think that officer did what he thought was the right thing, at the time...a little over kill, yea...But, to his credit (stupidity). Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed. So mistaking a brazilian for an arab is quite possible, I guess.... IT is sad. And the government saying it is ok, (or lieing about it, covering it up) is no good.
Here in the USA, the arabs have been sneaking across the Mexican boarder to the USA for quite some time now. About one in ten illegals who get caught are OTM (Other Than Mexican) which includes all others, but a significan't number now are arab males 18-35 sometimes in large groups, the arabs cut their hair and have a mustache, and dress in the same cloths as mexicans, and try and sneak across the boarder, possing as mexicans. scary stuff huh? That's why USA citizens vollunteeered to help stop it. The higher ups in the boarder patrol flipped out LOL... whining and moaning...
we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
How can you form an opinion on that?
You don't know the officer, you don't know anything about him- even in the UK no one really knows what happened, the initial govt statements have been shown to be false (apparently it's now been established that he wasn't even guilty of the 'crime' of running from armed men, latest video footage shows that he did not run).
From the start it was obvious that an innocent man had been killed by UK police- now it's looking more like murder.
This innocent person who was shot in the head multiple times could have been anyone- he could have been the cousin of anyone reading this. Though I will grant possibly not a relative of yours, due to his 'browness', but a lot of us in these enlightened times do have brown relatives, and yes, they can be mistaken for arabs, nevertheless, execution is execution, regardless of ones skin colour.
Written by: dantana
And I really do think that officer did what he thought was the right thing, at the time...a little over kill, yea...But, to his credit (stupidity). Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed. So mistaking a brazilian for an arab is quite possible, I guess.... IT is sad.
How can you form an opinion on that?
You don't know the officer, you don't know anything about him- even in the UK no one really knows what happened, the initial govt statements have been shown to be false (apparently it's now been established that he wasn't even guilty of the 'crime' of running from armed men, latest video footage shows that he did not run).
From the start it was obvious that an innocent man had been killed by UK police- now it's looking more like murder.
This innocent person who was shot in the head multiple times could have been anyone- he could have been the cousin of anyone reading this. Though I will grant possibly not a relative of yours, due to his 'browness', but a lot of us in these enlightened times do have brown relatives, and yes, they can be mistaken for arabs, nevertheless, execution is execution, regardless of ones skin colour.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Actually, most people are saying "We'd just like to get along with our lives, please leave us be. Have you finished with that paper?" We've been bombed before, we'll be bombed again. People get pretty much used to it.
Also the browness comment might apply to a very sheltered community and police officer. But this is London. The guy got a bus from from Tulse Hill to Stockwell, via Brixton. That's where I live and on those street white English folk are a minority.
There was no decent picture of the suspect available at the time so there was nobody to mistake him for. The reason he was followed was that he left the same block of flats as was connected to a gym membership card found at one of the attempted bomb sites.
I don't see the connection here between this and sacrificing liberty for safety. Liberties and human rights are being set aside wherever the government feels like. But this isn't a result of that. This is the result of a mistake. It's a globally common tale: Somebody had a gun and used it when they shouldn't have. Just this time it was somebody who was meant to be protecting the public.
As for vigilante border controls in Texas - I'm happy the border patrol reacted! But we're not talking about why the kkk border patrol incorporated is a bad/good idea. Or gun control!
Written by: DJ Dantana
Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along".
Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed.
Actually, most people are saying "We'd just like to get along with our lives, please leave us be. Have you finished with that paper?" We've been bombed before, we'll be bombed again. People get pretty much used to it.
Also the browness comment might apply to a very sheltered community and police officer. But this is London. The guy got a bus from from Tulse Hill to Stockwell, via Brixton. That's where I live and on those street white English folk are a minority.
There was no decent picture of the suspect available at the time so there was nobody to mistake him for. The reason he was followed was that he left the same block of flats as was connected to a gym membership card found at one of the attempted bomb sites.
I don't see the connection here between this and sacrificing liberty for safety. Liberties and human rights are being set aside wherever the government feels like. But this isn't a result of that. This is the result of a mistake. It's a globally common tale: Somebody had a gun and used it when they shouldn't have. Just this time it was somebody who was meant to be protecting the public.
As for vigilante border controls in Texas - I'm happy the border patrol reacted! But we're not talking about why the kkk border patrol incorporated is a bad/good idea. Or gun control!
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Yep, Dom, I feel the same way. After living in UK for 15 years, it took me quite a while to get used to Aussie police walking around with guns on their hips all the time. I was so surprised when I heard about this incident.. do UK police wear guns now, then? And I agree.. I like many of you I lived through years of the IRA bombs, and was in a number of 'incidents'. Here our Govt tries constantly to hype and 'terrorise' us by filling our head with propaganda about terrorists. But I never have even the slightest winkle of fear at any time about 'terrorists'.
But a cop with a gun... *shudder*
and when I was in the US I was freaked out all the time. Everyone I looked at I would think. Do you have a gun, do you? Realising that most shops I went into had guns... ugh, I couldn't stand it.
I could feel mny shoulders relax the second i went over into Canada... so I could certainly relate when I saw Bowling for Columbine.... So I do think to some extent this thread is about gun control. The only function of a gun is to kill or maim... the more guns there are around the less safe we are/feel. No matter who has them.
Written by: Dom
I still feel more intimidated by the police with guns than backpack wearing Muslims.
Yep, Dom, I feel the same way. After living in UK for 15 years, it took me quite a while to get used to Aussie police walking around with guns on their hips all the time. I was so surprised when I heard about this incident.. do UK police wear guns now, then? And I agree.. I like many of you I lived through years of the IRA bombs, and was in a number of 'incidents'. Here our Govt tries constantly to hype and 'terrorise' us by filling our head with propaganda about terrorists. But I never have even the slightest winkle of fear at any time about 'terrorists'.
But a cop with a gun... *shudder*
and when I was in the US I was freaked out all the time. Everyone I looked at I would think. Do you have a gun, do you? Realising that most shops I went into had guns... ugh, I couldn't stand it.
I could feel mny shoulders relax the second i went over into Canada... so I could certainly relate when I saw Bowling for Columbine.... So I do think to some extent this thread is about gun control. The only function of a gun is to kill or maim... the more guns there are around the less safe we are/feel. No matter who has them.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Totally true. I was pretty surprised at how mellow most were about the bombings. Most of the older crowd has grown up with countless IRA bombings in the news and the younger crowd has been desensitived by videogames anyway.
Police lies, shootings and brutality? Just another example of the UK trying to be like the US and coming up short.
Written by: DomWritten by: DJ Dantana
Most of you are saying "We love everybody, can't we all just get along".
Two brown people can look alike to someone who isn't accoustomed.
Actually, most people are saying "We'd just like to get along with our lives, please leave us be. Have you finished with that paper?" We've been bombed before, we'll be bombed again. People get pretty much used to it.
Totally true. I was pretty surprised at how mellow most were about the bombings. Most of the older crowd has grown up with countless IRA bombings in the news and the younger crowd has been desensitived by videogames anyway.
Police lies, shootings and brutality? Just another example of the UK trying to be like the US and coming up short.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Went to a show in the Edinburgh Festival called the Newsrevue, they (predictably) make fun of news with sketches, songs and silly jokes in between. We were wondering if they would have something to say about the bombings and the shooting of de Menezes.
They did, and even though some in the audience were a bit surprised about it being quite politically incorrect, most laughed and noone made any bad comments. I'm glad people deal with it this way - to laugh about scary things is much better than to get aggressive about them!
Went to a show in the Edinburgh Festival called the Newsrevue, they (predictably) make fun of news with sketches, songs and silly jokes in between. We were wondering if they would have something to say about the bombings and the shooting of de Menezes.
They did, and even though some in the audience were a bit surprised about it being quite politically incorrect, most laughed and noone made any bad comments. I'm glad people deal with it this way - to laugh about scary things is much better than to get aggressive about them!
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yeah, we haven't learned not to do it in front of cameras yet...
Written by: NYC
Police lies, shootings and brutality? Just another example of the UK trying to be like the US and coming up short.
Yeah, we haven't learned not to do it in front of cameras yet...
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
don't sell yourself short - American's are dumb enough for actually film it themselves (as per the iraqi jail torture stuff)
don't sell yourself short - American's are dumb enough for actually film it themselves (as per the iraqi jail torture stuff)
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Yah but do you remember the (name escapes me) case in LA where there was video footage of the police bashing a man to death. In court they 'analysed' it frame by frame and decided that as no particular 'frame' had killed him, it hadn't happened! Now that was so dumb it was smart.. or was it the other way round?
Yah but do you remember the (name escapes me) case in LA where there was video footage of the police bashing a man to death. In court they 'analysed' it frame by frame and decided that as no particular 'frame' had killed him, it hadn't happened! Now that was so dumb it was smart.. or was it the other way round?
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Hey Dantana, I'm not sure you've spent much time in London....
or UK... as generally it is a point of honour amongst the Limeys NOT to freak out.( stiff upper lip, keeping up standards, it's not cricket, don't let the bastards grind you down etc)
I'd say Londoners are not nearly so concerned about random strangers planting bombs on public transport (happened before, will happen again, we survived the Blitz etc) as they are about random strangers TALKING to them on public transport!
Written by: DJ Dantana
I know y'all are freaked out right now (for good reason),
Hey Dantana, I'm not sure you've spent much time in London....
or UK... as generally it is a point of honour amongst the Limeys NOT to freak out.( stiff upper lip, keeping up standards, it's not cricket, don't let the bastards grind you down etc)
I'd say Londoners are not nearly so concerned about random strangers planting bombs on public transport (happened before, will happen again, we survived the Blitz etc) as they are about random strangers TALKING to them on public transport!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
or in the case of your son giving them a smile and wink
that made riding the tubes sooooo much more fun
or in the case of your son giving them a smile and wink
that made riding the tubes sooooo much more fun Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
You're not referring to Rodney King are you?
Non-Https Image Link
Written by: newgabe
Yah but do you remember the (name escapes me) case in LA where there was video footage of the police bashing a man to death. In court they 'analysed' it frame by frame and decided that as no particular 'frame' had killed him, it hadn't happened! Now that was so dumb it was smart.. or was it the other way round?
You're not referring to Rodney King are you?
Non-Https Image Link
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Yes thanks it is that exactly. Thanks
Yes thanks it is that exactly. Thanks
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
Er, newgabe, they have guns in canada too... less laws about them really... I think its who has the guns, not the guns, and how guns are seen.
I'm terrified of the scared police in london with guns too (and yes, I saw some of them, I was in London from the 7th-13th and again on the 27th of July...)
I mean, when I found out about the bombings, I was ok with it once I determined that it was not internation war... (Dom has a dramatic way of waking one up ^_^) But after I heard about the police shooting the guy I started to get a little scared of the tube...
So glad to be in a country that was taking it all calmly tho, god do I want to move there!
But I'm much more scared of London police with guns than American police with guns, and even less so of, say, Michigan police with guns, because the really respect the guns a lot more here- its just a different attitude. Not that I'm trying to defend americans and all their problems here (really more canadians!) but just saying...
And, my favourite bit of logic recently:
security + ¬militia = ¬freedom
[[But if anyone wants to argue specifically that on its merits, please take it to another thread, i'll follow, thx.]]
Er, newgabe, they have guns in canada too... less laws about them really... I think its who has the guns, not the guns, and how guns are seen.
I'm terrified of the scared police in london with guns too (and yes, I saw some of them, I was in London from the 7th-13th and again on the 27th of July...)
I mean, when I found out about the bombings, I was ok with it once I determined that it was not internation war... (Dom has a dramatic way of waking one up ^_^) But after I heard about the police shooting the guy I started to get a little scared of the tube...
So glad to be in a country that was taking it all calmly tho, god do I want to move there!
But I'm much more scared of London police with guns than American police with guns, and even less so of, say, Michigan police with guns, because the really respect the guns a lot more here- its just a different attitude. Not that I'm trying to defend americans and all their problems here (really more canadians!) but just saying...
And, my favourite bit of logic recently:
security + ¬militia = ¬freedom
[[But if anyone wants to argue specifically that on its merits, please take it to another thread, i'll follow, thx.]]
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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