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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Yeah, guess who was there when they brought mom in?
I won't get into details, but it's the first time I've actually felt homocidal.
This goes so beyond anything that any sort of upbringing can do to someone that it simply has to be that she was born with a bad brain. My view is that "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" shouldn't apply here. I think she should be euthanized. At the very least she needs a hysterectomy to ensure that she can have no more babies to throw out windows.
My bet: she'll be out of prison by age 18.
My only consolation is that if there's a hell, it'll be extra hot for her.
Written by: the New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/13/nyregion/13baby.html?ref=nyregion
In the Bronx, Police Investigate the Death of a Newborn Girl
By EMILY VASQUEZ and CASSI FELDMAN
The body of a newborn girl, still bloody and with her umbilical cord attached, was discovered about 8 a.m. yesterday laying facedown on a patch of grass outside a Bronx housing development, the police said.
The police received an anonymous 911 call indicating that a baby was on the ground and may have been thrown from or fallen out of a window outside of the Eastchester Gardens housing complex.
It was unclear last night what caused the baby’s death, the police said. A spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office said an autopsy on the infant, who was pronounced dead at Jacobi Medical Center, was scheduled for today.
The police yesterday were talking with a 14-year-old girl who they believe was the baby’s mother.
The girl, who lives with her family on the fifth floor of Eastchester Gardens, had been picked up by the police at school and was taken to Jacobi Medical Center for treatment, the police said. As of last night, no arrests had been made in connection with the death.
Neighbors were distraught and angry, and some said they would have taken the baby in themselves.
“I’ve never seen nothing that hurt me so badly,” said Nelly Rosario, 45, a neighbor who said she saw the baby in the grass and at first mistook her for a doll. “I will never, as long as I live, forget that sight. It was going to be a beautiful baby.”
Investigators yesterday searched the apartment building, including the rooftop, and later inspected a trash can outside a nearby McDonald’s on East Gun Hill Road. One officer said that clothing, which was possibly soiled with “some afterbirth or a placenta,” was found in the trash can.
Yesterday morning, a woman, who neighbors said is the mother of the 14-year-old girl being questioned, was escorted by the police from her apartment. Neighbors said four additional children live in the family’s apartment.
A spokeswoman for the Administration for Children’s Services said she could not comment on whether the family had any history with the agency, but said that an investigation would be conducted.
A community affairs officer at the scene said: “It brought me to tears when I walked into the hospital and saw her. The best word is ‘heartbreaking.’ It just doesn’t make sense.”
Yeah, guess who was there when they brought mom in?
I won't get into details, but it's the first time I've actually felt homocidal.
This goes so beyond anything that any sort of upbringing can do to someone that it simply has to be that she was born with a bad brain. My view is that "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" shouldn't apply here. I think she should be euthanized. At the very least she needs a hysterectomy to ensure that she can have no more babies to throw out windows.
My bet: she'll be out of prison by age 18.
My only consolation is that if there's a hell, it'll be extra hot for her.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
She has probably been under a huge amount of psychological and emotional stress. It doesn't excuse her, but we should at least act compassionately. We aren't privy to the full details.
She has probably been under a huge amount of psychological and emotional stress. It doesn't excuse her, but we should at least act compassionately. We aren't privy to the full details.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I think it's fair to say that you can be temporarily insane after giving birth, suddenly being saddled with a crying baby after hours of pain, no idea how to support it, how you're going to live with it, and you've had 8 months of worry building up to it all, perhaps your entire community telling you abortion or contraception is evil, you didn't even enjoy or particularly consent at the moment of conception, and the father is no where to be found. (Or perhaps he or your mother did the throwing.) Plus you've never had any sex education and you have a massive case of post natal depression.
I wouldn't know. And I wouldn't judge her that quickly either.
Or at least tell us why you felt so homicidal... Was she a sociopath?
I think it's fair to say that you can be temporarily insane after giving birth, suddenly being saddled with a crying baby after hours of pain, no idea how to support it, how you're going to live with it, and you've had 8 months of worry building up to it all, perhaps your entire community telling you abortion or contraception is evil, you didn't even enjoy or particularly consent at the moment of conception, and the father is no where to be found. (Or perhaps he or your mother did the throwing.) Plus you've never had any sex education and you have a massive case of post natal depression.
I wouldn't know. And I wouldn't judge her that quickly either.
Or at least tell us why you felt so homicidal... Was she a sociopath?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
i see a law and order episode
i see a law and order episode
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Okay, fif...that was so true, and funny.
Added to mcp statement, don't underestimate the power of guilt to drive people to do crazy things. Family pressure as well, especially thinking of those living conditions.
We don't know the terms she got pregnant under either.
My biological mother had me when she was 14. Her mother refused to allow her to sign adoption papers and insisted that she care for me. She abandonned me when I was 8 months old. Literally, she left me alone in a crib, with a bottle of coffee and a blaring stereo. It's figured I was found after double digit amounts of hours there.
Mike, this is one of the very few times I will say you are wrong. Environment, raising and especially desperation can definately make a teenager who feels they have no other options do otherwise insane things...including kill. It's not an uncommon theme with more examples than I care to cite.
However, if you know or need to believe she has a mental issue in order to keep from killing, please continue to do so.
I think the mother should also be punished. Evidentally, she failed her daughter in a massive way.
Okay, fif...that was so true, and funny.
Added to mcp statement, don't underestimate the power of guilt to drive people to do crazy things. Family pressure as well, especially thinking of those living conditions.
We don't know the terms she got pregnant under either.
My biological mother had me when she was 14. Her mother refused to allow her to sign adoption papers and insisted that she care for me. She abandonned me when I was 8 months old. Literally, she left me alone in a crib, with a bottle of coffee and a blaring stereo. It's figured I was found after double digit amounts of hours there.
Mike, this is one of the very few times I will say you are wrong. Environment, raising and especially desperation can definately make a teenager who feels they have no other options do otherwise insane things...including kill. It's not an uncommon theme with more examples than I care to cite.
However, if you know or need to believe she has a mental issue in order to keep from killing, please continue to do so.
I think the mother should also be punished. Evidentally, she failed her daughter in a massive way.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Are you up for it??
349 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I have to agree with Pele on this one - kill the b**tch!
it doesnt mattter what the reasons or what age you are, there are NO excuses to do that to your child
* this opinion from a teenage mother
I have to agree with Pele on this one - kill the b**tch!
it doesnt mattter what the reasons or what age you are, there are NO excuses to do that to your child
* this opinion from a teenage mother
Are you up for it?
;)
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Compassionately? She's going to get knocked up again if given the opportunity. Trust me. I work in this environment. She clearly doesn't function like the rest of us.
No amount of psychological and emotional stress is enough to account for someone throwing their baby out the window and then acting like it was nothing.
No, someone needs to see to it that she can never get pregnant again.
Written by: jeff(fake)
She has probably been under a huge amount of psychological and emotional stress. It doesn't excuse her, but we should at least act compassionately.
Compassionately? She's going to get knocked up again if given the opportunity. Trust me. I work in this environment. She clearly doesn't function like the rest of us.
No amount of psychological and emotional stress is enough to account for someone throwing their baby out the window and then acting like it was nothing.
No, someone needs to see to it that she can never get pregnant again.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Pele, the difference isn't in killing the baby. The difference is the total lack of remorse. She'll do it again and again and again.
Maybe it's because none of you were there to meet her. I fail to believe that anyone with a vaguely normal human brain is capable of killing an infant without remorse. Killing an infant, maybe. But no remorse? Laughing and joking?
No. She's sick without any chance of cure.
Written by: Pele
Added to mcp statement, don't underestimate the power of guilt to drive people to do crazy things. Family pressure as well, especially thinking of those living conditions.
We don't know the terms she got pregnant under either.
My biological mother had me when she was 14. Her mother refused to allow her to sign adoption papers and insisted that she care for me. She abandonned me when I was 8 months old. Literally, she left me alone in a crib, with a bottle of coffee and a blaring stereo. It's figured I was found after double digit amounts of hours there.
Pele, the difference isn't in killing the baby. The difference is the total lack of remorse. She'll do it again and again and again.
Maybe it's because none of you were there to meet her. I fail to believe that anyone with a vaguely normal human brain is capable of killing an infant without remorse. Killing an infant, maybe. But no remorse? Laughing and joking?
No. She's sick without any chance of cure.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
that's what you didn't say in your first post, mr mike.
You gave us no hints as to her mental state when you saw / met her.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Pele, the difference isn't in killing the baby. The difference is the total lack of remorse. She'll do it again and again and again.
Maybe it's because none of you were there to meet her. I fail to believe that anyone with a vaguely normal human brain is capable of killing an infant without remorse. Killing an infant, maybe. But no remorse? Laughing and joking?
that's what you didn't say in your first post, mr mike.
You gave us no hints as to her mental state when you saw / met her.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
SILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Posted:
Is she mental ? , you have to be wouldn't you to do that.
Is she mental ? , you have to be wouldn't you to do that.
that shrewd and knavish sprite
Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy
I am the merry wander of the night -puk
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It seriously leads me to wonder that if, in the face of overwhelming evidence of guilt, the "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" clause of the Constitution shouldn't be relaxed. Don't torture her, just sterilize her and lock her up for life.
I know, in reality it's a slippery slope, but still... I wish a nice little trip out a fifth-story window on her.
It seriously leads me to wonder that if, in the face of overwhelming evidence of guilt, the "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" clause of the Constitution shouldn't be relaxed. Don't torture her, just sterilize her and lock her up for life.
I know, in reality it's a slippery slope, but still... I wish a nice little trip out a fifth-story window on her.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I think it was mcp who bought it up:
but do we actually know it was the 14year old? I've just read this thread out to my colleagues in Japan and we agree that it was quite likely the mother of the 14 year old who did it.
We have never had children, but we can't imagine a 14 year old who has just given birth to have the strength to throw an infant out the window. Also, in a family situation such a that (what was it? 4 other children in the apartment?) the child's grandmother is likely to be wondering about the extra mouth to feed.
And I believe someone made a comment about the girl most likely being brought up in an environment where contraception and abortion was "evil"...societies where contraception and abortion are "evil" see it as evil because it is killing babies. Therefore these societies are also going to see "baby tossing" as evil as well. Therefore we don't think throwing the baby out of the window is an environmental thing in that regard.
I think it was mcp who bought it up:
but do we actually know it was the 14year old? I've just read this thread out to my colleagues in Japan and we agree that it was quite likely the mother of the 14 year old who did it.
We have never had children, but we can't imagine a 14 year old who has just given birth to have the strength to throw an infant out the window. Also, in a family situation such a that (what was it? 4 other children in the apartment?) the child's grandmother is likely to be wondering about the extra mouth to feed.
And I believe someone made a comment about the girl most likely being brought up in an environment where contraception and abortion was "evil"...societies where contraception and abortion are "evil" see it as evil because it is killing babies. Therefore these societies are also going to see "baby tossing" as evil as well. Therefore we don't think throwing the baby out of the window is an environmental thing in that regard.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Questions for clarification, cos I am confused:
Who was brought in? The mother of the 14 year old, or the mother of the baby?
Was it the mother of the baby laughing and joking? Or the mother of the 14 year old?
Possibly these questions are irrelevant. I did want to say that I am not a mental health professional, and I wasn't there, but I am not sure how much of an indicator of mental stability or instability is the "laughing and joking" part.
Sorry you had such a traumatic experience, Doc.
Questions for clarification, cos I am confused:
Who was brought in? The mother of the 14 year old, or the mother of the baby?
Was it the mother of the baby laughing and joking? Or the mother of the 14 year old?
Possibly these questions are irrelevant. I did want to say that I am not a mental health professional, and I wasn't there, but I am not sure how much of an indicator of mental stability or instability is the "laughing and joking" part.
Sorry you had such a traumatic experience, Doc.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
this makes me sick to the stomach and so so sad.
I suffered from severe Post Natal Depression and I can tell you that no matter how bad the PND got harming bubby was NEVER an option that came up for me.
Nor any of the other mums that I have talked to in regards to PND. Yeah some mums had awful thoughts about their bubs, but would never ever actually harm them.
Doc, if she had Post Natal Psychosis would harming the child in that way be an action she may have undertook? I understand thats a medical emergency and can have some terrible, mentally deliberating symptoms.
If not.... I hope she never sees the light of day outside of an institution.
this makes me sick to the stomach and so so sad.
I suffered from severe Post Natal Depression and I can tell you that no matter how bad the PND got harming bubby was NEVER an option that came up for me.
Nor any of the other mums that I have talked to in regards to PND. Yeah some mums had awful thoughts about their bubs, but would never ever actually harm them.
Doc, if she had Post Natal Psychosis would harming the child in that way be an action she may have undertook? I understand thats a medical emergency and can have some terrible, mentally deliberating symptoms.
If not.... I hope she never sees the light of day outside of an institution.
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Yes Doc, compassionately.
If there is something wrong with her then we need to make her better. Whether that's education, medical treatment, social help or psychiatry I don't know.
If she needs to stay in an institution to keep her from doing this again then that's an opinion, but it should be done compassionately. It does no good to the world to hurt people for the sake of it.
Written by: Doc LightningWritten by: jeff(fake)
She has probably been under a huge amount of psychological and emotional stress. It doesn't excuse her, but we should at least act compassionately.
Compassionately? She's going to get knocked up again if given the opportunity. Trust me. I work in this environment. She clearly doesn't function like the rest of us.
No amount of psychological and emotional stress is enough to account for someone throwing their baby out the window and then acting like it was nothing.
No, someone needs to see to it that she can never get pregnant again.
Yes Doc, compassionately.
If there is something wrong with her then we need to make her better. Whether that's education, medical treatment, social help or psychiatry I don't know.
If she needs to stay in an institution to keep her from doing this again then that's an opinion, but it should be done compassionately. It does no good to the world to hurt people for the sake of it.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Oh dear, Mike. I am so sorry you have had to experience this.
Oh dear, Mike. I am so sorry you have had to experience this.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
sorry you had to experiance such a horrible thing mike, many
s to you.
however, i don't think killing her is going to do anyone any good. yes, she needs to be locked up. but not in jail, in a psycolocgical institution. There's obviously something very wrong with the girl, but i don't think that at 14 it can't be fixed.
Also, don't you think that having her realise what she's done and having her own consiance (sp?) deal with it would be a better pusnishment?
sorry you had to experiance such a horrible thing mike, many
s to you.however, i don't think killing her is going to do anyone any good. yes, she needs to be locked up. but not in jail, in a psycolocgical institution. There's obviously something very wrong with the girl, but i don't think that at 14 it can't be fixed.
Also, don't you think that having her realise what she's done and having her own consiance (sp?) deal with it would be a better pusnishment?
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
Doesn't play well with others...
187 posts
Location: CANADA
Doesn't play well with others...
187 posts
Location: CANADA
Posted:
No matter how messed up you are, there is NEVER a good excuse to throw a baby out a window!
No matter how messed up you are, there is NEVER a good excuse to throw a baby out a window!
I smile because I have no idea what is going on...
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
i had to wait 1 and a half months before holding my son for the first time..
i couldn't wait for that moment having seen him, no matter how many problems his mother had had during her pregnancy, having nearly lost her and my son at his birth and almost lost his mother again after.. i wouldn't change him or dream of harming him in anyway.
Im saddened to hear that that happened, it makes me sick to think that it has.
But...
America... where it all happens!
only last week was a 4 yera old boy accused of sexually molestering another child.. 
What next America
These stories, true or not... what ever social pressnece is around it's people .. it needs to educate those in need of it. (if that makes any sense )
i had to wait 1 and a half months before holding my son for the first time..
i couldn't wait for that moment having seen him, no matter how many problems his mother had had during her pregnancy, having nearly lost her and my son at his birth and almost lost his mother again after.. i wouldn't change him or dream of harming him in anyway.
Im saddened to hear that that happened, it makes me sick to think that it has.
But...
America... where it all happens!
only last week was a 4 yera old boy accused of sexually molestering another child.. What next America
These stories, true or not... what ever social pressnece is around it's people .. it needs to educate those in need of it. (if that makes any sense
) SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Blayze I don't think anyone here is making an excuse out of anything. I believe we all agree that it is so very wrong to harm a baby. Perhaps people are just looking at possible reasons behind the action.
Written by: Blayze
No matter how messed up you are, there is NEVER a good excuse to throw a baby out a window!
Blayze I don't think anyone here is making an excuse out of anything. I believe we all agree that it is so very wrong to harm a baby. Perhaps people are just looking at possible reasons behind the action.
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
3,492 posts
Location: .:*over the rainbow*:.
Posted:
that is one of the saddest things i've ever read.
that is one of the saddest things i've ever read. *:...one day all the fairy fridges will be aligned and my pixie world will be complete...:*
SILVER Member
Doesn't play well with others...
187 posts
Location: CANADA
Doesn't play well with others...
187 posts
Location: CANADA
Posted:
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was making excuses, just stating my opinon.
Written by: ValuraWritten by: Blayze
No matter how messed up you are, there is NEVER a good excuse to throw a baby out a window!
Blayze I don't think anyone here is making an excuse out of anything. I believe we all agree that it is so very wrong to harm a baby. Perhaps people are just looking at possible reasons behind the action.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was making excuses, just stating my opinon.
I smile because I have no idea what is going on...
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
I'd liek to add one thing, as someone who's been in such a position (unwanted pregnancy). The mind of a mother that does not want the baby she is carrying behaves very differently from that of someone cherishes the person growing inside her.
I'm not condoning any actions, just informing people that someone who wants their child can not begin to imagine what types of thoughts can go through someone's head that doesn't. Had I not had a very supportive doctor that educated me about adoption and all the benefits from my perspective I would have been one of those mothers you hear about leaving a baby on a doorstep somewhere.
During the course of the pregnancy, I dealt with a doctor that took me in as a medicaid patient. This was rough because the degree of specialized attention paid to me was for inferior to a regular private practice doc that would have taken me on for more money. Yes, I got the proper tests, but I wasn't even told about lamaze classes or briefed about any symptoms I might experience. I had to beg and plead for any doctor to just see me, because they all had a quota of patients on medicaid that they had already exceeded. The only way I finally found my doc in a city of 800,000 was by promising him I would deliver with another doc in another city. Big hassles, and if I hadn't been so well educated or determined, I would have easily fallen through the gaps. I'm just pointing this out to say how very easy it is to not get adequate care at a young age with not much money, even if you are trying to go through the proper channels.
All of that plays a huge role in your mentality and well being. If you don't have people behind you to support you, your mind does crazy things.
I'd liek to add one thing, as someone who's been in such a position (unwanted pregnancy). The mind of a mother that does not want the baby she is carrying behaves very differently from that of someone cherishes the person growing inside her.
I'm not condoning any actions, just informing people that someone who wants their child can not begin to imagine what types of thoughts can go through someone's head that doesn't. Had I not had a very supportive doctor that educated me about adoption and all the benefits from my perspective I would have been one of those mothers you hear about leaving a baby on a doorstep somewhere.
During the course of the pregnancy, I dealt with a doctor that took me in as a medicaid patient. This was rough because the degree of specialized attention paid to me was for inferior to a regular private practice doc that would have taken me on for more money. Yes, I got the proper tests, but I wasn't even told about lamaze classes or briefed about any symptoms I might experience. I had to beg and plead for any doctor to just see me, because they all had a quota of patients on medicaid that they had already exceeded. The only way I finally found my doc in a city of 800,000 was by promising him I would deliver with another doc in another city. Big hassles, and if I hadn't been so well educated or determined, I would have easily fallen through the gaps. I'm just pointing this out to say how very easy it is to not get adequate care at a young age with not much money, even if you are trying to go through the proper channels.
All of that plays a huge role in your mentality and well being. If you don't have people behind you to support you, your mind does crazy things.
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
sorry, but has anyone actually answered yet as to WHO is was who threw the baby?
sorry, but has anyone actually answered yet as to WHO is was who threw the baby?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
*BUMP*
I was just watching the morning news... and to my surprise there was a story about a 20 year old mother who threw her 3 year old daughter out of the window, either last night or earlier this morning, no one or it has not been released yet as to why or how but it just goes to show yet another case of disgusting parental behaviour the world over.
I think that the mother was from the province of Pistoia but a quick search of the Italian News websites does not include this story right now.
*BUMP*
I was just watching the morning news... and to my surprise there was a story about a 20 year old mother who threw her 3 year old daughter out of the window, either last night or earlier this morning, no one or it has not been released yet as to why or how but it just goes to show yet another case of disgusting parental behaviour the world over.
I think that the mother was from the province of Pistoia but a quick search of the Italian News websites does not include this story right now.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Mike, my biological mother, after leaving me for what social services termed as "for dead- in conditions in which an infant couldn't survive a prolonged period of time" (the only reason I was found, btw, is because the neighbors heard me crying for hours and called the police) had *no* remorse.
In fact, when I met her when I was 21 she told me that she was a wonderful mother who loved me and did what she thought was best for me. In front of me I had social service papers that clearly explained otherwise.
It is not so uncommon.
Valura, harming ones baby, and/or the thoughts of, is a common symptom of PND globally (I say that because this stuff does happen the world over). I've had a few friends internationally who suffered from it horrifically. Were medicated and a couple were temporarily institutionalized to receive therapy BEFORE they could do anything. One woman I knew here actually was institutionalized after the birth of her second baby. She's still there. That was 9 years ago. When they stopped her from harming her baby, she turned on herself.
It is a severe issue.
Spritie is completely correct in that the thoughts surrounding an unwanted pregnancy are unlike anything you could ever imagine, especially as a man Mike. Sorry but I don't see how you could ever actually understand it.
And I can only imagine that youth, poverty, and who knows what else plays into deepening those thoughts as well.
I am not saying that these women have an excuse and I think that they should be held legally liable for their actions to the extent of the law (instead of this temporary insanity crap) but I *do* feel for them and have compassion as I know it is very dark place to be.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Pele, the difference isn't in killing the baby. The difference is the total lack of remorse. She'll do it again and again and again.
Maybe it's because none of you were there to meet her. I fail to believe that anyone with a vaguely normal human brain is capable of killing an infant without remorse. Killing an infant, maybe. But no remorse? Laughing and joking?
No. She's sick without any chance of cure.
Mike, my biological mother, after leaving me for what social services termed as "for dead- in conditions in which an infant couldn't survive a prolonged period of time" (the only reason I was found, btw, is because the neighbors heard me crying for hours and called the police) had *no* remorse.
In fact, when I met her when I was 21 she told me that she was a wonderful mother who loved me and did what she thought was best for me. In front of me I had social service papers that clearly explained otherwise.
It is not so uncommon.
Valura, harming ones baby, and/or the thoughts of, is a common symptom of PND globally (I say that because this stuff does happen the world over). I've had a few friends internationally who suffered from it horrifically. Were medicated and a couple were temporarily institutionalized to receive therapy BEFORE they could do anything. One woman I knew here actually was institutionalized after the birth of her second baby. She's still there. That was 9 years ago. When they stopped her from harming her baby, she turned on herself.
It is a severe issue.
Spritie is completely correct in that the thoughts surrounding an unwanted pregnancy are unlike anything you could ever imagine, especially as a man Mike. Sorry but I don't see how you could ever actually understand it.
And I can only imagine that youth, poverty, and who knows what else plays into deepening those thoughts as well.
I am not saying that these women have an excuse and I think that they should be held legally liable for their actions to the extent of the law (instead of this temporary insanity crap) but I *do* feel for them and have compassion as I know it is very dark place to be.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Yeah I totally understand that Pele, cause I suffered it pretty badly myself and Doc Lightning helped me through a lot of it.
I suppose what I was trying to say is that although the bad thoughts about harming your child are there, its a very rare occasion that mums actually act on it.
I have been told by a doctor that when they do act on it they are usually in the grips of Post Natal Psychosis,which is a lot different that PND but in the same family. Most PND mums fight the bad feelings in hurting their child, and are able not to do that.
Usually PND mums are horrified at the thoughts they are experiencing... where as Post Natal Psychosis mums are generally unaware the thoughts and feeling they are having are wrong because they are psychotic and are experiencing a true medical emergency.
Types Of Post Natal Depression
Im not saying it hasnt happened, just trying to make the difference between PND and Post Natal Psychosis more evident, cause PND gets a lot of the blame for the truley terrible harming occurrences when its medically found that the mum was suffering PNP
Since my PND I have been helping to run a support group here for PND mums, so I am learning more and more each day...thanks for your knowledge Pele!
Written by: Pele
Valura, harming ones baby, and/or the thoughts of, is a common symptom of PND globally (I say that because this stuff does happen the world over). I've had a few friends internationally who suffered from it horrifically. Were medicated and a couple were temporarily institutionalized to receive therapy BEFORE they could do anything. One woman I knew here actually was institutionalized after the birth of her second baby. She's still there. That was 9 years ago. When they stopped her from harming her baby, she turned on herself.
It is a severe issue.
Yeah I totally understand that Pele, cause I suffered it pretty badly myself and Doc Lightning helped me through a lot of it.
I suppose what I was trying to say is that although the bad thoughts about harming your child are there, its a very rare occasion that mums actually act on it.
I have been told by a doctor that when they do act on it they are usually in the grips of Post Natal Psychosis,which is a lot different that PND but in the same family. Most PND mums fight the bad feelings in hurting their child, and are able not to do that.
Usually PND mums are horrified at the thoughts they are experiencing... where as Post Natal Psychosis mums are generally unaware the thoughts and feeling they are having are wrong because they are psychotic and are experiencing a true medical emergency.
Types Of Post Natal Depression
Im not saying it hasnt happened, just trying to make the difference between PND and Post Natal Psychosis more evident, cause PND gets a lot of the blame for the truley terrible harming occurrences when its medically found that the mum was suffering PNP
Since my PND I have been helping to run a support group here for PND mums, so I am learning more and more each day...thanks for your knowledge Pele!
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
Sorry you had to deal with this, Doc.
One of my old teachers at college, a very wise lady, used to work for the NSPCC. She told us once about when she was working at the burns unit of a hospital, it was her job to interview parents who brought their children in for treatment to try and establish if there was anything wrong.
One day a couple brought in a four month old baby who had first degree burns over all of it's body. When she interviewed the parents about how this had come to happen, they simply said "she was crying and crying, we told her to stop but she didn't. So we thought she had to be punished...' They had held her under a boiling hot tap for 10 minutes. They simply couldn't see what they had done was wrong.
That was the end of my teacher's work for the NSPCC, she couldn't handle it. What she explained to us though is that child abuse often runs in cycles through families. This does NOT mean at all that if someone is abused as a child then they will go on to abuse children, just that a very high percentage of those who do abuse children were abused themselves.
Many children who are abused go on to feel ashamed, even in some cases feeling that they are the ones who are in the wrong, that they must have deserved it. Children who have been abused need to be supported and ultimately to learn that what was done to them was wrong and that there was no justification for it, even though this might seem obvious to onlookers. If they do not develop this understanding and have adequate psychological and emotional support, there is a good chance they will go on to replicate the behaviours of those who abused them when they were children.
Sorry you had to deal with this, Doc.
One of my old teachers at college, a very wise lady, used to work for the NSPCC. She told us once about when she was working at the burns unit of a hospital, it was her job to interview parents who brought their children in for treatment to try and establish if there was anything wrong.
One day a couple brought in a four month old baby who had first degree burns over all of it's body. When she interviewed the parents about how this had come to happen, they simply said "she was crying and crying, we told her to stop but she didn't. So we thought she had to be punished...' They had held her under a boiling hot tap for 10 minutes. They simply couldn't see what they had done was wrong.
That was the end of my teacher's work for the NSPCC, she couldn't handle it. What she explained to us though is that child abuse often runs in cycles through families. This does NOT mean at all that if someone is abused as a child then they will go on to abuse children, just that a very high percentage of those who do abuse children were abused themselves.
Many children who are abused go on to feel ashamed, even in some cases feeling that they are the ones who are in the wrong, that they must have deserved it. Children who have been abused need to be supported and ultimately to learn that what was done to them was wrong and that there was no justification for it, even though this might seem obvious to onlookers. If they do not develop this understanding and have adequate psychological and emotional support, there is a good chance they will go on to replicate the behaviours of those who abused them when they were children.
Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Toddler found playing on US freeway
Toddler found playing on US freeway
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
member
78 posts
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
member
78 posts
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Posted:
I had severe Post Partum Depression with my child, and that story still makes me sick to my stomach. I am sorry but I can't even comprehend how someone can do that to a child. I have no compassion for people who kill innocent children, regardless of the situation.
On the other hand, I wish more parents were supportive and understanding of teenage mothers, no matter what their choice is. I am against abortion, but do see it as an option for others, just not myself. If that girl had supportive parents maybe this would of never happened. Adoption is wonderful and I wish the parents of teenage mothers would support their child enough to know that this child was there for a reason, whether that reason is to be put up for adoption, or raise the child themselves with the help of the girls family.
It's a sad situation all around, it makes me sick but at the same time I do feel sorry for the girl. But I can't fathom what went through her head to make her get to that point.
I'm just glad that my parents were supportive of my sister and I. My sister was raped at 15 and had a baby and she was put up for adoption, but I did not find out about the baby until years later (I was only 7 when this happened.) my parents were supportive of my sister, they even offered to raise the child as their own, but my sister wanted to give the gift of a child to someone else. I got pregnant at 19 and my parents were wonderful, they allowed me options as well but now I have a wonderful 3 year old that I couldn't imagine life without.
The situation of that girl is sad, but it still doesn't make it any less sickening
I had severe Post Partum Depression with my child, and that story still makes me sick to my stomach. I am sorry but I can't even comprehend how someone can do that to a child. I have no compassion for people who kill innocent children, regardless of the situation.
On the other hand, I wish more parents were supportive and understanding of teenage mothers, no matter what their choice is. I am against abortion, but do see it as an option for others, just not myself. If that girl had supportive parents maybe this would of never happened. Adoption is wonderful and I wish the parents of teenage mothers would support their child enough to know that this child was there for a reason, whether that reason is to be put up for adoption, or raise the child themselves with the help of the girls family.
It's a sad situation all around, it makes me sick but at the same time I do feel sorry for the girl. But I can't fathom what went through her head to make her get to that point.
I'm just glad that my parents were supportive of my sister and I. My sister was raped at 15 and had a baby and she was put up for adoption, but I did not find out about the baby until years later (I was only 7 when this happened.) my parents were supportive of my sister, they even offered to raise the child as their own, but my sister wanted to give the gift of a child to someone else. I got pregnant at 19 and my parents were wonderful, they allowed me options as well but now I have a wonderful 3 year old that I couldn't imagine life without.
The situation of that girl is sad, but it still doesn't make it any less sickening
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
while i cannot imagine doing this in particular
they have this new "disorder" dpms, which is insanely bad pms, i got diagnosed with it at 16
every month i got suicidal about a week before my period and i couldn't walk for a day
people who don't have it cannot imagine the thoughts that run through the head that seem sane when you're thinking of them...and it is all fuzzy so nothing really seems real anyways
my parents thought i was being dramatic for most of my life, they still do, but now i've gotten some treatment...
each case is different and while i can see the horridness of this, i wonder how she really feels now, not how the media is reporting but how she feels when she looks in the mirror
while i cannot imagine doing this in particular
they have this new "disorder" dpms, which is insanely bad pms, i got diagnosed with it at 16
every month i got suicidal about a week before my period and i couldn't walk for a day
people who don't have it cannot imagine the thoughts that run through the head that seem sane when you're thinking of them...and it is all fuzzy so nothing really seems real anyways
my parents thought i was being dramatic for most of my life, they still do, but now i've gotten some treatment...
each case is different and while i can see the horridness of this, i wonder how she really feels now, not how the media is reporting but how she feels when she looks in the mirror
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
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