Forums > Help! > short flame

Posted: 31st Aug 2007
Yeah.. use paraffin/ Kerosene

Posted: 31st Aug 2007
You know, Coleman fuel is a heck of a lot safer when you blend it. You could try a blend of about 70:30 coleman:kero. Makes your flames brighter, but it's relatively safe to use.


Otherwise... Anyone know anywhere outside Australia that sells firewater?

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

Posted: 1st Sep 2007
fire water?

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha

Posted: 1st Sep 2007
It is (or at least used to be) a brand name of fuel sold in Aus especially for fire dancers. Never used it myself, but everyone I've spoken to about the stuff says it's lovely to spin with!

"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky

Posted: 2nd Sep 2007
Firewater or Firesol are brand names of excellent odourless fuels sold by JuggleArt in Melbourne and Gooble Warming in Brisbane respectively. (those are cities in Australia) What exact fuel they use has changed over time. Last time Ispoke to them, (three weeks ago) Gooble was using d60 due to cheapness, availability and a high flashpoint (safety and ease of transport). Used to use various of the Isopar family. They do not ship overseas. I am not sure what Juggleart currently use.
There have been many threads about this and other fuels on HoP. Basically, if you want odourless fuels available in your part of the world, you need to make a relationship with a chemical supplier. This is what Juggleart and Gooble have done, what I have done, what others have done. You may have to buy large drums eg 200litres to make it worth their while selling to you.

These fuels are not refined or distrubuted with the purpose of being firespinning fuels. So ask them for a fuel (or solvent) with a flashpoint of around 40° (Isopars) or higher (d60 is around 60° hence the name). d60 is used commercially as a solvent and lubricant in printing processes and is cheap. Others are more expensive. Good luck.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

Posted: 2nd Sep 2007
When I last looked into this, and there are uk chemical suppliers that will sell d60, aka (firesol / firewater) or whatever I found when comparing the msds sheets that d60 did not compare favourably in terms of toxicity with other refined parafine(s) that we use, I wouldn't know about the various Isopars, and to be honest I lost interest in the whole debate several years ago,



mark

Posted: 4th Sep 2007
Coleman (as any "bright" burning liquid) has a higher flashpoint, therefore it will do more damage to your wick and be more of a hazard/ inflict deeper injuries, than any liquid with lower flashpoint.

You might want to consider that any flame is not as visible during daylight and shift your performance to "blue hour" (just after sunset/ before nightfall).

My guess yould be that a brighter flame also burns less toxic/ with lower carbon emission - which would be an argument pro Coleman/ vs. Kero. Definitely stay away from any paint remover/ thinner and stuff like that. The fumes are lethal!

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 4th Sep 2007

 Written by: FireTom


Coleman (as any "bright" burning liquid) has a higher flashpoint, therefore it will do more damage to your wick and be more of a hazard/ inflict deeper injuries, than any liquid with lower flashpoint.

I think you have that the wrong way around - Colemans has a relatively low flashpoint - it lights at lower temperature than a fuel with a high flashpoint.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

Posted: 5th Sep 2007
lower flashpoint = doesn't take much to start it burning = normally therefore burns itself up faster = hotter flame = more dangerous as it's both hotter, and accidental ignition (eg fuel can going up etc) more likely to happen.



eg , petrol - low flashpoint - never consider any kind of fireplay with it ever.



brightness of the flame, flashpoint etc has no correlation to environmental issues.



eg surgical spirit - very high temperature burn, low flashpoint, very safe on skin, not too damaging to the earth.



paraffin - high flashpoint, not excessively fast burning or bright, bad for skin and environment, kills grass pretty quickly and lingers in the soil afterwards too.



a products damage to skin etc by burning (as opposed to irritant / carcinogen ) varies massively and depends on how you come into contact with it, some fast burning low flashpoint fuels are very easy to shake/pat out they require a lot of oxygen to keep going, and can just be gone in a puff to quick to really do any damage, they often also evaporate so quickly it helps prevent damage also, but it depends exactly what you do with them.



higher flashpoint fuels are often sticky, and will sit on you burning for a long time, eating up oxygen more slowly and can take more of an effort to put out.



with both though it all depends on the size/type of spill, and surrounding environment.



lower flashpoint fuels can have the effect of just the fumes burning so the flame is actually off the skin, so as long as nothing is over the flame (as heat goes up, duh) it's not so bad for very brief flashes, but they're hideously bad if inhaled.





paraffin has long been held as the best compromise for just about any kind of performing. I'd get off the lighter fluid as soon as possible.



'fire water' is an isopar-g (or shellsol-t pretty much the same thing but by a different manufacturer) based fuel, that is a paraffin variant, it produces less visible smoke so has the visual appearance of being cleaner (won't blacken wicks either) but is actually as harmful to you, more of an irritant to some peoples skin, and more harmful to the environment if spilled, especially into the water table.

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Posted: 5th Sep 2007
I've yet to find a standard fuel that looks good in the day-time but coloured flames can be more of a visual impact... there are loads of posts on here about coloured flames but remember if you are mixing a chemical with your fuel you are changing its properties so be careful about flash points / storage / wick damage / etc....

I've come to the conclusion that you should just wait till it gets dark! ...as Yakumo said get away from the lighter fluid a get yourself some parrafin!

"Whats wrong with the cat?" - Mrs Schrödinger

Posted: 6th Sep 2007
Yupp you're right... it should have read "low flashpoint" Thanks

Brighter flame does not equal less smoke? I thought so...

However: Less ambient light = better flame visibility.

And usually charcoal lighter fluid smells badly...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to