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Forums > Technical Discussion > Teaching Moves Thread v2.0
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Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
The teaching moves thread. v2.0
Soooooo, I've been thinking about this, cos of making a tutorial DVD. Teaching people in general is a interesting area when there isn't any definatives on correct technique nor are there any rules. Super badly written, but at work, no time to proof read.
So when you're teaching someone something, there are certain ways of teaching that are going to work best for them, but you won't know them in advance, you have to discover them for each individual... and sometimes they have to discover them for themselves, or even find new techniques.
Nor do you know what part of what you teach, or what you say is going to be taken on board by the student. In essense, you don't know if what you say / show them will inspire or ultimately stagnant their passion for what your teaching them.
On one hand it could be that you say a a particular sentence like: "everything can also be done in horizontal" and they go away and learn everything they can in horizontal, leading them to new and cool things and ultimately they become as passionate as you about the subject.
On the other, they get frustrated by the huge range of possibilities this opens up and they can't even learn an easy move in horizontal, so they give up learning the art and don't do it anymore.
To what extent could saying something different have changed those two's future course? If you had said more to the second would they have stayed inspired and gone on to become a great spinner, experienced satisfaction from spinning that they didn't get from any other source?
If you had said more to the first spinner, would they have revaluated their entire learning style, quickly jumping ahead in all aspects of spinning and starting to concentrate on learning how to learn...
What you say to students can affect their passion and decision to continue with spinning, maybe not to the great extent pictured above, but certainly to some extent, and to some people to the extent above, or even at some critical times in your learning, you can affect a student that much.
I don't know. I certainly don't want to ruin someones passion by saying the wrong thing for them... but in a big group of people you've got to try and teach them all as best you can... what works for one might destroy another...
Something I've heard is that motivation is more important that ability sometimes. If you've motivated to learn something, I'm sure nothing will get in the way of your learning it. Likewise if you enjoy it, you shouldn't need motivation to do it, it should be it's own reward.
So if I happen to teach bad technique... it might ingrain bad habits in people... but they will have learnt it. Subsequently some of them might become depresseed and irritated that they're doing the trick 'wrong' and that they need to relearn it, others will relearn it and file the bad technique as a way to recover from a failed move or just as a bead of technique they won't need to use again, but that's good to know. They might awaken and look over all their technique for bad habits.
Ultimately of course, I'll never know what will affect a person in their future passion for spinning, or even if I can affect them.
But sometimes I thinks I should be more careful with teaching... it can change somebodies life don't cha know?
If I make it seem too easy will they not be motivated to learn? If I overload them with knowledge will they be burnt out before they even go home and practise? If I don't teach them enough will they not come back to spinning cos it's too easy? If I teach them at all will that stifle their natural style because they'll be busy learning tricks / my style instead? Will I, by teaching them, stop them developing along their own natural paths and finding whole new areas of spinning, because they're learning stuff already found?
Will what i say and teach affect what they think are the 'rules' of spinning? Or create in them the idea of 'rules' where there are none? (Plane Breaking = bad would be an example of a rule I like.) Will that stop them exploring entire areas of spinning? Just cos of something I said that they took to heart?
Is something better than nothing even when the something is a bit wrong? (bad technique.)
These are not reasons for me (at least) to not teach. [I have much better reasons than these not to teach, but still i do.] Rather, they are worries I have. All the time.
The teaching moves thread. v2.0
Soooooo, I've been thinking about this, cos of making a tutorial DVD. Teaching people in general is a interesting area when there isn't any definatives on correct technique nor are there any rules. Super badly written, but at work, no time to proof read.
So when you're teaching someone something, there are certain ways of teaching that are going to work best for them, but you won't know them in advance, you have to discover them for each individual... and sometimes they have to discover them for themselves, or even find new techniques.
Nor do you know what part of what you teach, or what you say is going to be taken on board by the student. In essense, you don't know if what you say / show them will inspire or ultimately stagnant their passion for what your teaching them.
On one hand it could be that you say a a particular sentence like: "everything can also be done in horizontal" and they go away and learn everything they can in horizontal, leading them to new and cool things and ultimately they become as passionate as you about the subject.
On the other, they get frustrated by the huge range of possibilities this opens up and they can't even learn an easy move in horizontal, so they give up learning the art and don't do it anymore.
To what extent could saying something different have changed those two's future course? If you had said more to the second would they have stayed inspired and gone on to become a great spinner, experienced satisfaction from spinning that they didn't get from any other source?
If you had said more to the first spinner, would they have revaluated their entire learning style, quickly jumping ahead in all aspects of spinning and starting to concentrate on learning how to learn...
What you say to students can affect their passion and decision to continue with spinning, maybe not to the great extent pictured above, but certainly to some extent, and to some people to the extent above, or even at some critical times in your learning, you can affect a student that much.
I don't know. I certainly don't want to ruin someones passion by saying the wrong thing for them... but in a big group of people you've got to try and teach them all as best you can... what works for one might destroy another...
Something I've heard is that motivation is more important that ability sometimes. If you've motivated to learn something, I'm sure nothing will get in the way of your learning it. Likewise if you enjoy it, you shouldn't need motivation to do it, it should be it's own reward.
So if I happen to teach bad technique... it might ingrain bad habits in people... but they will have learnt it. Subsequently some of them might become depresseed and irritated that they're doing the trick 'wrong' and that they need to relearn it, others will relearn it and file the bad technique as a way to recover from a failed move or just as a bead of technique they won't need to use again, but that's good to know. They might awaken and look over all their technique for bad habits.
Ultimately of course, I'll never know what will affect a person in their future passion for spinning, or even if I can affect them.
But sometimes I thinks I should be more careful with teaching... it can change somebodies life don't cha know?
If I make it seem too easy will they not be motivated to learn? If I overload them with knowledge will they be burnt out before they even go home and practise? If I don't teach them enough will they not come back to spinning cos it's too easy? If I teach them at all will that stifle their natural style because they'll be busy learning tricks / my style instead? Will I, by teaching them, stop them developing along their own natural paths and finding whole new areas of spinning, because they're learning stuff already found?
Will what i say and teach affect what they think are the 'rules' of spinning? Or create in them the idea of 'rules' where there are none? (Plane Breaking = bad would be an example of a rule I like.) Will that stop them exploring entire areas of spinning? Just cos of something I said that they took to heart?
Is something better than nothing even when the something is a bit wrong? (bad technique.)
These are not reasons for me (at least) to not teach. [I have much better reasons than these not to teach, but still i do.] Rather, they are worries I have. All the time.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
MCP thats how I am training my puppy. Lots of treats at first.
Will have to see how she is at staff.
MCP thats how I am training my puppy. Lots of treats at first.
Will have to see how she is at staff.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
GOLD Member
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
not different, just not the same
263 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
I actually disagree a bit with that. I think the problem with the whole conversation is the word criticism... it FEELS like a bad word by itself, almost an insult but not quite... Maybe should use "pointers" instead? Always offer pointers from the beginning!
Criticism doesn't have to come out bad, or like the student didn't accomplish anything. Certainly praise them for getting the concept and the basic move, but letting them go on refining without pointers is doing them more harm then good.
For example, I recently taught someone who had barely ever swung poi how to do a Chase the sun and the beginnings of Flowers. She picked up the chase the sun after just a few attempts but of course being her first time it was sloppy and there were several areas needing improvement. I didn't tell her it was sloppy I told her how awesome it was she got the idea down that fast. Did the whole clapping and pat the back thing, let her try again a couple more times then I nicely gave her some further pointers with the reason why the pointers mattered. I did NOT say "here's what you are doing wrong" instead I said "here's a common problem people have with the move, and here's a way to help fix that" Basically never tell them they are wrong, just that the move can be bettered in general. This keeps away the feeling of criticism.
Like I told her it'd help her not hit her back if she watched her plane on the way up, locked her elbow till the top and turned her hand over. Then I demonstrated the difference. I didn't act condecending nor did I belittle their accomplishment. I try to present my pointers in a "Hey that's AWESOME you got it, now try adding this lil bit" kinda manner. I see much faster improvement in people by using that kind of attitude and manner. I personally believe that if you let a person learn something "kinda right" and let them practice it that way you may end up doing them a disservice because they may burn the half correct way into memory and have a harder time adjusting later.
This is also why I usually break moves down into as small of a piece as I can for them. I think it really helps people in mentally grasping what's going on. A lego castle is intimidating to build, but snapping 2 bricks together is child's play. Do it enough and the Castle is child's play
btw lazyangel I am in no way criticising your comment, and if it sounds like i'm saying you are wrong or anything i'm sorry, everyone has their own methods, these are just my thoughts, no offense intended.
Written by: LazyAngel
what I meant more was, don't criticise people the first time they manage to do something, but then add constructive criticism at later stages (when they've had some time to practise) if that makes sense?
I actually disagree a bit with that. I think the problem with the whole conversation is the word criticism... it FEELS like a bad word by itself, almost an insult but not quite... Maybe should use "pointers" instead? Always offer pointers from the beginning!
Criticism doesn't have to come out bad, or like the student didn't accomplish anything. Certainly praise them for getting the concept and the basic move, but letting them go on refining without pointers is doing them more harm then good.
For example, I recently taught someone who had barely ever swung poi how to do a Chase the sun and the beginnings of Flowers. She picked up the chase the sun after just a few attempts but of course being her first time it was sloppy and there were several areas needing improvement. I didn't tell her it was sloppy I told her how awesome it was she got the idea down that fast. Did the whole clapping and pat the back thing, let her try again a couple more times then I nicely gave her some further pointers with the reason why the pointers mattered. I did NOT say "here's what you are doing wrong" instead I said "here's a common problem people have with the move, and here's a way to help fix that" Basically never tell them they are wrong, just that the move can be bettered in general. This keeps away the feeling of criticism.
Like I told her it'd help her not hit her back if she watched her plane on the way up, locked her elbow till the top and turned her hand over. Then I demonstrated the difference. I didn't act condecending nor did I belittle their accomplishment. I try to present my pointers in a "Hey that's AWESOME you got it, now try adding this lil bit" kinda manner. I see much faster improvement in people by using that kind of attitude and manner. I personally believe that if you let a person learn something "kinda right" and let them practice it that way you may end up doing them a disservice because they may burn the half correct way into memory and have a harder time adjusting later.
This is also why I usually break moves down into as small of a piece as I can for them. I think it really helps people in mentally grasping what's going on. A lego castle is intimidating to build, but snapping 2 bricks together is child's play. Do it enough and the Castle is child's play
btw lazyangel I am in no way criticising your comment, and if it sounds like i'm saying you are wrong or anything i'm sorry, everyone has their own methods, these are just my thoughts, no offense intended.
I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.
Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posted:
LOL.
I accidentally started a small demo the other night at a friend's house by giving him his brand, spanking new, first set of practice poi (zunis). He'd been asking me to teach him since last Halloween at Shampoo in Philly.
Y'know what I discovered was a most effective teaching tool for a group of 22-26 year olds? Turn everything into dirty euphemisms. The dirtier, the better. It kept them laughing and having fun, but still got the point across about certain techniques.... just in a rather unusual manner.
I had them butterflying and doing simple variations in a half an hour. I was proud.... but a little ashamed at how long it took me to figure out the butterfly so long ago. Then, as we were just getting started on weaves, we had to call the practice session for dark and game time.
We'll see how much they remember this week at game night during our pre-game spin session.
LOL.
I accidentally started a small demo the other night at a friend's house by giving him his brand, spanking new, first set of practice poi (zunis). He'd been asking me to teach him since last Halloween at Shampoo in Philly.
Y'know what I discovered was a most effective teaching tool for a group of 22-26 year olds? Turn everything into dirty euphemisms. The dirtier, the better. It kept them laughing and having fun, but still got the point across about certain techniques.... just in a rather unusual manner.
I had them butterflying and doing simple variations in a half an hour. I was proud.... but a little ashamed at how long it took me to figure out the butterfly so long ago. Then, as we were just getting started on weaves, we had to call the practice session for dark and game time.
We'll see how much they remember this week at game night during our pre-game spin session.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
Imbalance: just so I make this clear:
criticism: 'that was sh!t!'
constructive criticism: 'that was almost there, you just need to... etc., etc'
Disclaimer: this is not suggesting what is going on in my mind when I'm teaching people, this is just to make sure that everyone is clear about what I mean by constructive criticism.
Yeah, on the whole I agree with the encouragement/non attacking of egos. I save the harsh stuff for people who know what they're doing
Imbalance: just so I make this clear:
criticism: 'that was sh!t!'
constructive criticism: 'that was almost there, you just need to... etc., etc'
Disclaimer: this is not suggesting what is going on in my mind when I'm teaching people, this is just to make sure that everyone is clear about what I mean by constructive criticism.
Yeah, on the whole I agree with the encouragement/non attacking of egos. I save the harsh stuff for people who know what they're doing
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
interesting:
https://www.alite.co.uk/readings/motivation/motivation1.htm
interesting:
https://www.alite.co.uk/readings/motivation/motivation1.htm
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
That's why teaching those people is soooooo much more fun.
Written by: LazyAngel
I save the harsh stuff for people who know what they're doing
That's why teaching those people is soooooo much more fun.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Yeah, there you go. That's tip of the iceburg, dumbed down for the masses, educational theory.
Sorry I can't find you any good stuff Meg, I've actually been looking. It's all in old textbooks and lectures I remember getting my masters degree kinda stuff.
Written by: mcp
interesting:
https://www.alite.co.uk/readings/motivation/motivation1.htm
Yeah, there you go. That's tip of the iceburg, dumbed down for the masses, educational theory.
Sorry I can't find you any good stuff Meg, I've actually been looking. It's all in old textbooks and lectures I remember getting my masters degree kinda stuff.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
yeah tis the trouble with the internet.... Not all information is on here.
yeah tis the trouble with the internet.... Not all information is on here.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posted:
New question, teaching related..... how do you guys keep up with a group?
I'd been using a trick from horseback riding of puttering from person to person by putting them in a circle around me so I can survey everyone from one, central position. But, how do you keep up with varying skills of a small group to give everyone the attention they deserve? And, when you have a quick learner, has anyone found a good way to keep them from being too much of a glory-hog to all the other students?
New question, teaching related..... how do you guys keep up with a group?
I'd been using a trick from horseback riding of puttering from person to person by putting them in a circle around me so I can survey everyone from one, central position. But, how do you keep up with varying skills of a small group to give everyone the attention they deserve? And, when you have a quick learner, has anyone found a good way to keep them from being too much of a glory-hog to all the other students?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
In my 'teach ins' I generally have anyone who gets a move turn and teach it to someone who doesn't get it.
But I'm not charging and usually running around and cooking/hosting doors and such. The more advanced folks usually enjoy being asked to tutor. Especially when the newbies are cute.
In my 'teach ins' I generally have anyone who gets a move turn and teach it to someone who doesn't get it.
But I'm not charging and usually running around and cooking/hosting doors and such. The more advanced folks usually enjoy being asked to tutor. Especially when the newbies are cute.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posted:
We're basically spinning to kill time before someone arrives and game night can start (considering we get there at around 7, and this last, straggler arrives at around 9-9:30ish). I'm just trying to bounce back and forth to try to keep up with everyone.
Written by: NYC
In my 'teach ins' I generally have anyone who gets a move turn and teach it to someone who doesn't get it.
But I'm not charging and usually running around and cooking/hosting doors and such. The more advanced folks usually enjoy being asked to tutor. Especially when the newbies are cute.
We're basically spinning to kill time before someone arrives and game night can start (considering we get there at around 7, and this last, straggler arrives at around 9-9:30ish). I'm just trying to bounce back and forth to try to keep up with everyone.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
If there's a large difference between levels, it might pay to split folks up into homogeneous groups.
The few times I did it, I had the 'advanced' criteria be 'those that knew the three beat weave' and 'those that didn't'. This was obviously a basic basic bunch though.
I stuck someone in charge of the advanceder group and then tutored the newbies myself.
If there's a large difference between levels, it might pay to split folks up into homogeneous groups.
The few times I did it, I had the 'advanced' criteria be 'those that knew the three beat weave' and 'those that didn't'. This was obviously a basic basic bunch though.
I stuck someone in charge of the advanceder group and then tutored the newbies myself.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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