Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Split-Time stalls
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DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
Posted:
Does anyone got any advice on split time stalls? Is there a good excersize for this? Every time i try to do them my hand always keep getting in the way of each other. And i can't continuously do them. I can only do it on one side and can't get the poi to get over to the other side. Please help!
Does anyone got any advice on split time stalls? Is there a good excersize for this? Every time i try to do them my hand always keep getting in the way of each other. And i can't continuously do them. I can only do it on one side and can't get the poi to get over to the other side. Please help!
"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
Where are you trying to place the stalls? It might help for knowing how your collisions are happening. As for continuously doing them, that's a pain. Your planes need to be super tight, but gravity also adds a big difference in acceleration between your poi coming out of the stall. The only way I've found to balance that out is to add a bit of a flick of the wrist when pulling the down-stalled poi. The hard parts are flicking just the right amount, with only the correct wrist.
As far as exercises, what's helped me so far is trying, just with one hand, to stall up and down in time with a beat; this is harder than it sounds because the transition from downstall to upstall will try to be longer than the other direction. This might help to feel out how it works as a repetitive motion.
P.S. I learned most of what I know from your tutorials, so I just wanted to take a moment to say thanks for those!
EDITED_BY: Sister Eleven (1260868878)
EDIT_REASON: Postscript
Where are you trying to place the stalls? It might help for knowing how your collisions are happening. As for continuously doing them, that's a pain. Your planes need to be super tight, but gravity also adds a big difference in acceleration between your poi coming out of the stall. The only way I've found to balance that out is to add a bit of a flick of the wrist when pulling the down-stalled poi. The hard parts are flicking just the right amount, with only the correct wrist.
As far as exercises, what's helped me so far is trying, just with one hand, to stall up and down in time with a beat; this is harder than it sounds because the transition from downstall to upstall will try to be longer than the other direction. This might help to feel out how it works as a repetitive motion.
P.S. I learned most of what I know from your tutorials, so I just wanted to take a moment to say thanks for those!
EDITED_BY: Sister Eleven (1260868878)
EDIT_REASON: Postscript
p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s
Part-time genius
59 posts
Location: Netherlands
59 posts
Location: Netherlands
Posted:
Do you mean split butterfly stalls? If so, the most useful exercise for me has been, with just one poi, continuously upstalling on each side of my body with no circles in the middle, just a swing across the bottom. Same goes for the downstalling, just keep doing it continuously between swings across the top, with no circles. Obviously it's important to do this with both hands. Once that's comfy (you may already be there) fiddle with the placement of the stall, stop it high and low and concentrate on getting them dead vertical (mirrors are an invaluable aid for that). Apart from that, if you want the poi to stall next to each other, rather than head-to-head it helps to know beforehand which is going to be in front and which behind, which should ease your tangling issue.
Do you mean split butterfly stalls? If so, the most useful exercise for me has been, with just one poi, continuously upstalling on each side of my body with no circles in the middle, just a swing across the bottom. Same goes for the downstalling, just keep doing it continuously between swings across the top, with no circles. Obviously it's important to do this with both hands. Once that's comfy (you may already be there) fiddle with the placement of the stall, stop it high and low and concentrate on getting them dead vertical (mirrors are an invaluable aid for that). Apart from that, if you want the poi to stall next to each other, rather than head-to-head it helps to know beforehand which is going to be in front and which behind, which should ease your tangling issue.
PLATINUM Member
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
bastard child of satan
1,113 posts
Location: Raanana, Israel
Posted:
Derek, These are new to me for now, but I'll try to make a tutorial
Derek, These are new to me for now, but I'll try to make a tutorial
SILVER Member
Resident Demolitions Expert
103 posts
Location: San Francisco, Ca, USA
Resident Demolitions Expert
103 posts
Location: San Francisco, Ca, USA
Posted:
There is only one answer....practice.
Stalls are hard.
Hard to get clean.
Just put in your hours.
There is only one answer....practice.
Stalls are hard.
Hard to get clean.
Just put in your hours.
DIAMOND Member
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
Posted:
Well i had been trying to learn them same direction, with the both poi stalling on my left side of my body first, and on the way to my right it becomes a mess. I'm finding hard to figure out which hand to lead with, or if that even matters.
Here's what happens now that i try to visualize whats going on.
I lead with my left hand, it stalls upward to my left, just before my right stalls upward to the left side. I lead with my left again to the right side to do the same, but it has to cross the front of me on the inside of my right arm, and thats where it gets all in a mess.
Is this the wrong approach? Or do I just need to put in more time in practice?
And i hadn't thought of doing them in butterfly but i will now. it seems a bit easier.
Well i had been trying to learn them same direction, with the both poi stalling on my left side of my body first, and on the way to my right it becomes a mess. I'm finding hard to figure out which hand to lead with, or if that even matters.
Here's what happens now that i try to visualize whats going on.
I lead with my left hand, it stalls upward to my left, just before my right stalls upward to the left side. I lead with my left again to the right side to do the same, but it has to cross the front of me on the inside of my right arm, and thats where it gets all in a mess.
Is this the wrong approach? Or do I just need to put in more time in practice?
And i hadn't thought of doing them in butterfly but i will now. it seems a bit easier.
"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
So it sounds like you're starting from a split time same direction spin, stalling one on your left side, and then stalling the other in roughly the same place and in the same direction a half beat later. Then you're swinging your first hand back over to the other side of your body to stall it there, followed by the other a half beat later, and then ideally to continuously swing them back and forth so you're upstalling in an alternating pattern on both sides of your body. Do I have this correct?
So it sounds like you're starting from a split time same direction spin, stalling one on your left side, and then stalling the other in roughly the same place and in the same direction a half beat later. Then you're swinging your first hand back over to the other side of your body to stall it there, followed by the other a half beat later, and then ideally to continuously swing them back and forth so you're upstalling in an alternating pattern on both sides of your body. Do I have this correct?
p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s
GOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA
Posted:
I'd recommend abstracting this concept from "split-time" spinning. I think of it as "staggered" or "offset" rhythm. From different contexts, you can get into from all the timings: ie together-same, split-same, quarter-same, tog-opposite, split-opposite, quarter-opposite... It just depends on wether you are stalling to the same site, or different sites.
Sister Eleven hit the nail on the head by saying you are stalling one poi, waiting half a beat and then stalling the other: the stalls are offset or staggered in time. Conversely you can spin in split-same and stall on either side of your circle (2 different stall sites) so that your stalls land their 0-points at exactly the same time... and then you can do the version of that that lands the same time, but is 180º (1pi) out of phase in the repeating pattern.
Since we are typically dealing with a repeatable stall pattern that is oscillating between 2 stalls (ie up then down, or left then right) you can think of the temporal relationships of when the stalls land in terms of phase:
Your stall timing could be in phase AKA 0º (2pi) out of phase: they will stall to the same site at the same time.
Your stall timing could be 180º (1pi) out of phase: they will stall to opposite sites at the same time.
Your stall timing could be 90º (pi/2) out of phase: they will stall staggered in time. This means they are equally offset in time from the same stall site AND opposite stall sites. There are 2 versions: poi A leads or poi B leads.
You can switch the leader by making the lead poi do a rotation so that the chasing stall will over take it and become the new leader. It is possible to do what you are doing without changing the leader, but on one side you will have to stall your arms into a crossed position, so it can get messy, as you said.
An easier way to do continues staggered stalls is to constantly turn your body so that your hands never have to cross. It feels really nice, like one poi is hopping after the other as you turn.
I'd recommend abstracting this concept from "split-time" spinning. I think of it as "staggered" or "offset" rhythm. From different contexts, you can get into from all the timings: ie together-same, split-same, quarter-same, tog-opposite, split-opposite, quarter-opposite... It just depends on wether you are stalling to the same site, or different sites.
Sister Eleven hit the nail on the head by saying you are stalling one poi, waiting half a beat and then stalling the other: the stalls are offset or staggered in time. Conversely you can spin in split-same and stall on either side of your circle (2 different stall sites) so that your stalls land their 0-points at exactly the same time... and then you can do the version of that that lands the same time, but is 180º (1pi) out of phase in the repeating pattern.
Since we are typically dealing with a repeatable stall pattern that is oscillating between 2 stalls (ie up then down, or left then right) you can think of the temporal relationships of when the stalls land in terms of phase:
Your stall timing could be in phase AKA 0º (2pi) out of phase: they will stall to the same site at the same time.
Your stall timing could be 180º (1pi) out of phase: they will stall to opposite sites at the same time.
Your stall timing could be 90º (pi/2) out of phase: they will stall staggered in time. This means they are equally offset in time from the same stall site AND opposite stall sites. There are 2 versions: poi A leads or poi B leads.
You can switch the leader by making the lead poi do a rotation so that the chasing stall will over take it and become the new leader. It is possible to do what you are doing without changing the leader, but on one side you will have to stall your arms into a crossed position, so it can get messy, as you said.
An easier way to do continues staggered stalls is to constantly turn your body so that your hands never have to cross. It feels really nice, like one poi is hopping after the other as you turn.
+Alien Jon
SILVER Member
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Poi explorer
108 posts
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posted:
Yeah try learning like Alienjon said with your body turning all the time so you don't worry about crossing your arms at first. For me it helped that I'd been playing with pendulums a lot beforehand so I was doing lots of split time pendulums and just started extending the pendulum stalls into an up or overhand stalls.
Yeah try learning like Alienjon said with your body turning all the time so you don't worry about crossing your arms at first. For me it helped that I'd been playing with pendulums a lot beforehand so I was doing lots of split time pendulums and just started extending the pendulum stalls into an up or overhand stalls.
DIAMOND Member
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
Posted:
Yes! Exactly.
Yes! Exactly.
"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean
DIAMOND Member
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
Posted:
Thanks! That helps alot. Turning the body makes everything so much easier. And i'll be playing with switching the leading hand as well.
Thanks! That helps alot. Turning the body makes everything so much easier. And i'll be playing with switching the leading hand as well.
"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
While stalls are one of my stronger points, unfortunately this is one I can't help with. Upstall-to-upstall swings are something I just don't have a feel for. In fact, if something helps you out with those, let me know what it is
While stalls are one of my stronger points, unfortunately this is one I can't help with. Upstall-to-upstall swings are something I just don't have a feel for. In fact, if something helps you out with those, let me know what it is
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DIAMOND Member
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
DerekJF85
101 posts
Location: Garland, TX, USA
Posted:
What alienjon had replied pretty much did it for me. You can turn between going from the left to right side. Or you can have one poi spin an extra beat so each hand changes the lead position. Just read Jon's message.
What alienjon had replied pretty much did it for me. You can turn between going from the left to right side. Or you can have one poi spin an extra beat so each hand changes the lead position. Just read Jon's message.
"Dream as you will live forever, and live as you will die today"
James Dean
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
Ah, I meant even just one-handed upsstall-upstall swings are giving me trouble right now, much less two handed. It's a project, is all.
Ah, I meant even just one-handed upsstall-upstall swings are giving me trouble right now, much less two handed. It's a project, is all.
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GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
I've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?
I've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
SILVER Member
we are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
45 posts
Location: falls church, virginia, usa
we are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams
45 posts
Location: falls church, virginia, usa
Posted:
nick woolsey's "cubing" exercise helped me a lot:
nick woolsey's "cubing" exercise helped me a lot:
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
Heh. Tripped again by my habit of forgetting to watch videos all the way through. The first couple parts of that got me playing with stalls for plane and timing changes again, but apparently I ran off to play with that before getting to the part where he has the tip on upstalls
Heh. Tripped again by my habit of forgetting to watch videos all the way through. The first couple parts of that got me playing with stalls for plane and timing changes again, but apparently I ran off to play with that before getting to the part where he has the tip on upstalls
p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s
GOLD Member
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
owner of the group property
1,277 posts
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posted:
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceI've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?
Again, I think it's helpful to know where you're trying to place the stalls. Where are your poi during their initial stall, and where are you trying to make them end up?
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceI've been having a time with this myself, but more so in opposites. Any advice for that scenario?
Again, I think it's helpful to know where you're trying to place the stalls. Where are your poi during their initial stall, and where are you trying to make them end up?
p|.q|r:|::s|.s|s:|:.s|q.|:p|s.|.p|s
GOLD Member
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Putting the "FUN" in fundamental since 1981
787 posts
Location: Dover, Delaware USA
Posted:
The downward stall is my hardest area with opposites, I can't seem to get the momentum right. The upstall would be the second hardest for me. Both I'm trying to do individually for directional changes while swinging in split time.
My straight out stalls are going fine in same time, split time, and opposites both in front and behind me and downward I can get in same time inspin.
I hope that can help the lending of advice...
The downward stall is my hardest area with opposites, I can't seem to get the momentum right. The upstall would be the second hardest for me. Both I'm trying to do individually for directional changes while swinging in split time.
My straight out stalls are going fine in same time, split time, and opposites both in front and behind me and downward I can get in same time inspin.
I hope that can help the lending of advice...
~Rock on!~
"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life
(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)
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