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Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Perpetual Tangle Buzzsaw
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo,
this is something the ddragon said before, but i think it warants its own post for ease of future referance.
you can make a tangle buzzsaw go forever:
go into tangle buzzsaw.
make 'isolation' motions with both hands, but not full on isolations, just a little bit.
err, thats it.
helpfull hints.
get a good even tangle buzzsaw in the first place, both poi the same length through the tangle.
move both hands the same amount.
keep the isolated strings between your hands and the tangle 'level', dont be holding your left hand a bit higher.
the hardest thing about perpetual tangle is that it has a tendancy to become uneven, and this quickly spirals out of controle. the tips above should rectify that.
have fun!
T
yo,
this is something the ddragon said before, but i think it warants its own post for ease of future referance.
you can make a tangle buzzsaw go forever:
go into tangle buzzsaw.
make 'isolation' motions with both hands, but not full on isolations, just a little bit.
err, thats it.
helpfull hints.
get a good even tangle buzzsaw in the first place, both poi the same length through the tangle.
move both hands the same amount.
keep the isolated strings between your hands and the tangle 'level', dont be holding your left hand a bit higher.
the hardest thing about perpetual tangle is that it has a tendancy to become uneven, and this quickly spirals out of controle. the tips above should rectify that.
have fun!
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
You can do full isolations if you tangle then move to quartertime (+) isolations. The poi aren't actually tangled, but they're on the wrong sides so is a little messsed up.
Also try hands spinning in opposite directions in a tanlge buzzsaw - cos it's silly!
You can do full isolations if you tangle then move to quartertime (+) isolations. The poi aren't actually tangled, but they're on the wrong sides so is a little messsed up.
Also try hands spinning in opposite directions in a tanlge buzzsaw - cos it's silly!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yeah, i was gonna say they are sorta tangled/not tangled sittling behind the tangle, but i thought it would be a bit confusing so i didnt. something to notice after you get it I think.
blue finds thease easier when moving them in a tangle buzzsaw fountain....meh!
T
yeah, i was gonna say they are sorta tangled/not tangled sittling behind the tangle, but i thought it would be a bit confusing so i didnt. something to notice after you get it I think.
blue finds thease easier when moving them in a tangle buzzsaw fountain....meh!
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Good good stuff.
Good good stuff.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmmm....
Quote:
Also try hands spinning in opposite directions in a tanlge buzzsaw - cos it's silly!
hmmm....
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Dom: did you mean both hands spinning in opposite directions?
or both hands spinning in the opposite direction to the buzzsaw?
the latter is indeed silly and i love it
but the former is proper crazy
but would still work...
you can move your hands pretty much however you want in a tangle buzzsaw, the only problem is maintaining the momentum.
if you do a forwards tangle, then move your hands as if you were doing a reverse buzzsaw, then its pretty hard to keep the momentum
UNLESS
you also move your reverse buzzsawing hands in a large forwards circle (like a flower), keeping the tangled bit a little isolated to keep the speed up.
(of course, i can't do this stuff with any degree of reliability or cleanliness
)
Dom: did you mean both hands spinning in opposite directions?
or both hands spinning in the opposite direction to the buzzsaw?
the latter is indeed silly and i love it
but the former is proper crazy
but would still work...you can move your hands pretty much however you want in a tangle buzzsaw, the only problem is maintaining the momentum.
if you do a forwards tangle, then move your hands as if you were doing a reverse buzzsaw, then its pretty hard to keep the momentum
UNLESS
you also move your reverse buzzsawing hands in a large forwards circle (like a flower), keeping the tangled bit a little isolated to keep the speed up.
(of course, i can't do this stuff with any degree of reliability or cleanliness
) "Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
Well i didn't actually mean you can keep them going forever...but its a good way to learn how to keep them going for a real long time. I think weight and chain link play a huge part in it.
If any of you have seen afew of the glowstring vid's, you would have seen that alot of them can keep the hyp buzzsaw going (nearly) forever...i think it has to do with the string...any way if you have good medium size heads and thin strong chain its realisticly possible to get alot of rotations. I find it eaiser to do on fire than with pratice poi, it could be the weight or maybee just the adrenalin 
Well i didn't actually mean you can keep them going forever
...but its a good way to learn how to keep them going for a real long time. I think weight and chain link play a huge part in it.If any of you have seen afew of the glowstring vid's, you would have seen that alot of them can keep the hyp buzzsaw going (nearly) forever...i think it has to do with the string...any way if you have good medium size heads and thin strong chain its realisticly possible to get alot of rotations. I find it eaiser to do on fire than with pratice poi, it could be the weight
or maybee just the adrenalin 110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
another limiting factor is that the chain\string\sock gets twisted up unless your hands switch to the other side of the tangle (like you do in a buzzsaw fountain)
EDIT - or if you keep your hands isolating with the poi.
so a twistier 'poi body' makes them easier to keep going. Bootlaces are very twisty, sock poi are possibly the worst for this...
although that doesn't matter if you've got good swivel joints near the handles.
another limiting factor is that the chain\string\sock gets twisted up unless your hands switch to the other side of the tangle (like you do in a buzzsaw fountain)
EDIT - or if you keep your hands isolating with the poi.
so a twistier 'poi body' makes them easier to keep going. Bootlaces are very twisty, sock poi are possibly the worst for this...
although that doesn't matter if you've got good swivel joints near the handles.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
ball chain is twist-up proof.
and it makes a gorgeous noise when you enter and exit tangles
ball chain is twist-up proof.
and it makes a gorgeous noise when you enter and exit tangles
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
hopeless addict
121 posts
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom
hopeless addict
121 posts
Location: nodnoL, United Kingdom
Posted:
hmmm, i love then noise of a perfectly executed hyperloop on ball chain...
i've found that if you isolate for a while, as much as you like, then at the right time snap both your hands back to the normal hyperloop position it just gives the tangle loads more momentum as the chains hit together again. so you can switch between it being isolated and normal as much as you like
hmmm, i love then noise of a perfectly executed hyperloop on ball chain...
i've found that if you isolate for a while, as much as you like, then at the right time snap both your hands back to the normal hyperloop position it just gives the tangle loads more momentum as the chains hit together again. so you can switch between it being isolated and normal as much as you like
Ninjas NEVER give up!
newbie
4 posts
Location: California, U.S. effin' A.
4 posts
Location: California, U.S. effin' A.
Posted:
neh. ball chain= bad. you can't check if they're gonna break of not...and it's happened. with fire poi. ick. but rope poi work really well..hard pressed to do a hyperloop with those...
neh. ball chain= bad. you can't check if they're gonna break of not...and it's happened. with fire poi. ick. but rope poi work really well..hard pressed to do a hyperloop with those...
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Anti-spin!
lightning,
:R
Anti-spin!
lightning,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
Isolating your hands backwards split time during a forwards tangle is indeed very silly, and very tricky to exit, thanks to bluecat for introducing that silliness to me.
That action (perpetual tangles) is what some folks refer to as Oli-ing.
The action is to jump the leading poi over the nexus, the trailing poi should follow on it's own. 'Much like riding a horse'
At this point there is loosness in the nexus, as you jump the lead poi over again the nexus tightens again. This is the time that you are correcting the various lengths of everything to balance out.
Socks work well because of the grip they have on each other. This allows for very fine tuning.
m
Isolating your hands backwards split time during a forwards tangle is indeed very silly, and very tricky to exit, thanks to bluecat for introducing that silliness to me.
That action (perpetual tangles) is what some folks refer to as Oli-ing.
The action is to jump the leading poi over the nexus, the trailing poi should follow on it's own. 'Much like riding a horse'
At this point there is loosness in the nexus, as you jump the lead poi over again the nexus tightens again. This is the time that you are correcting the various lengths of everything to balance out.
Socks work well because of the grip they have on each other. This allows for very fine tuning.
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that's the best description of oli-ing i've ever read right there ^
thank-you for that matt
you rock
rating this thread a five for that gem.
cole. x
that's the best description of oli-ing i've ever read right there ^
thank-you for that matt
you rock rating this thread a five for that gem.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
cheers coleman,
off topic:
I've got so much i need to explain but it's just overwhelming me at the moment. Where to begin? I'm trying to figure a way to get it all out in some cohesive way. I have all the tools needed to do it, i even have some time. I've just spent a year watching video upon video of all this stuff in slo mo and lots of concepts have really crystalised.
Anyhoo, pm me if you have any thoughts about how to get it all down.
btw, i like the term 'perpetual tangle' waaaay more than 'infinite tangle' etc
cheers coleman,
off topic:
I've got so much i need to explain but it's just overwhelming me at the moment. Where to begin? I'm trying to figure a way to get it all out in some cohesive way. I have all the tools needed to do it, i even have some time. I've just spent a year watching video upon video of all this stuff in slo mo and lots of concepts have really crystalised.
Anyhoo, pm me if you have any thoughts about how to get it all down.
btw, i like the term 'perpetual tangle' waaaay more than 'infinite tangle' etc
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
SILVER Member
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
Posted:
clarify for me whats the difference from a tangle busaws and an orbital because from what yall are say they sound like the same move
clarify for me whats the difference from a tangle busaws and an orbital because from what yall are say they sound like the same move
SILVER Member
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy
Posted:
tangle stays on two planes that are 90° one each other and orbital is on two planes that are not at 90°...
something like:
tangle
o
|
-------
|
o
orbital
o
/
-------
/
o
I hope I'm true...
Acciaio
tangle stays on two planes that are 90° one each other and orbital is on two planes that are not at 90°...
something like:
tangle
o
|
-------
|
o
orbital
o
/
-------
/
o
I hope I'm true...
Acciaio
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Er...Personally I'd say "Tangle buzzsaw" is old-skool speak for orbitals.
The difference in the first post would be it's describing more an "oli-loop" style orbital when you keep the poi going by pushing the tangle in a circular motion, where as an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed, i.e. a tangle is active, an orbital is passive.
Possibly
Er...Personally I'd say "Tangle buzzsaw" is old-skool speak for orbitals.
The difference in the first post would be it's describing more an "oli-loop" style orbital when you keep the poi going by pushing the tangle in a circular motion, where as an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed, i.e. a tangle is active, an orbital is passive.
Possibly
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Sounds good to me, Durbs.
Sounds good to me, Durbs.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
GOLD Member
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
Posted:
so a tangle buzzsaw is effectivly the same as a hyperloop entry? or am i mistaken?
so a tangle buzzsaw is effectivly the same as a hyperloop entry? or am i mistaken?
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
A tangle buzzsaw is a (infinite) hyperloop - it's just an old-skool name for it
A tangle buzzsaw is a (infinite) hyperloop - it's just an old-skool name for it
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
SILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Posted:
You think? I thought orbitals (derived from glow sticking and now adopted by nick as super duper uber poopers or something) are tang;es, buzzsaw hyperloops that are then sharply tightened, causing a fast, tight spinning.. err, thingy.
So I wouldn't therefore agree with an orbital being passive. Have I misunderstood?
Written by: Durbs
an orbital tends to rely on the entry speed
You think? I thought orbitals (derived from glow sticking and now adopted by nick as super duper uber poopers or something) are tang;es, buzzsaw hyperloops that are then sharply tightened, causing a fast, tight spinning.. err, thingy.
So I wouldn't therefore agree with an orbital being passive. Have I misunderstood?
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Fair point - but they aren't propelled, after the initial spurt of energy from the string-shortening they're left to run their course then exit, where as buzzsaw-tangle/oli-loops/pushed infinite hyperloops are given their energy until you get bored
Fair point - but they aren't propelled, after the initial spurt of energy from the string-shortening they're left to run their course then exit, where as buzzsaw-tangle/oli-loops/pushed infinite hyperloops are given their energy until you get bored
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
SILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK
Posted:
Weeeell. Yes, but, you can repropel them, by slackening and retensioning.. this isn't done that much but has been demonstrated by Nick with his swivel poi.
Weeeell. Yes, but, you can repropel them, by slackening and retensioning.. this isn't done that much but has been demonstrated by Nick with his swivel poi.
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
No, because eventually you'd run out of energy - it's just lengthening and shortening the chain to vary the speeds, it doesn't give add any energy into the move (well, maybe a slight bit) - but you couldn't do them indefinitely...
No, because eventually you'd run out of energy - it's just lengthening and shortening the chain to vary the speeds, it doesn't give add any energy into the move (well, maybe a slight bit) - but you couldn't do them indefinitely...
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
with stretchy poi, you can. and I have.
Oh, and the thing in the first post, is not a hyperloop. It's a buzzsaw, where the poi are tangled, (so in this respect it is like a hyperloop) but the hands continue doing the split time buzzsaw isolation hand motions. or, tangled buzzsaw. I can't work out what makes it perpetual. your hands turning are still spinning the poi, which is what gives it propulsion, therefore the energy isn't being generated by itself, ergo, it is not perpetual motion. or have I completely mixed the word perpetual with something else?
with stretchy poi, you can. and I have.
Oh, and the thing in the first post, is not a hyperloop. It's a buzzsaw, where the poi are tangled, (so in this respect it is like a hyperloop) but the hands continue doing the split time buzzsaw isolation hand motions. or, tangled buzzsaw. I can't work out what makes it perpetual. your hands turning are still spinning the poi, which is what gives it propulsion, therefore the energy isn't being generated by itself, ergo, it is not perpetual motion. or have I completely mixed the word perpetual with something else?
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
SILVER Member
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
Posted:
so this thread is about orbitals yeah u can keep em going on poi for alot longer than with glowsticks but i agree not forever unless some one can show me a vid where someone does a whole burn in orbital then i might but where would the fun be in that. orbitals are fun harder for me to exit from with poi.
so this thread is about orbitals yeah u can keep em going on poi for alot longer than with glowsticks but i agree not forever unless some one can show me a vid where someone does a whole burn in orbital then i might but where would the fun be in that. orbitals are fun harder for me to exit from with poi.
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Ed - I bet you didn't do it indefinitely - otherwise you wouldn't be able to type now
Poinoob - Er, no. But we'll let you off 'cos of your name
Ed - I bet you didn't do it indefinitely - otherwise you wouldn't be able to type now
Poinoob - Er, no. But we'll let you off 'cos of your name
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
GOLD Member
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
enthusiast
248 posts
Location: Ireland
Posted:
kool, got em now. thanks durbs
/bow
kool, got em now. thanks durbs
/bow
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
I use my teeth, innit.
I use my teeth, innit.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
SILVER Member
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
member
45 posts
Location: louisianna, new orleans, USA
Posted:
so u get in a tangle and move ur hands and the poi in buzzsaw. can some one link me to a video of this being done???? great qoute by the way durbs
EDITED_BY: poinoob (1204249768)
so u get in a tangle and move ur hands and the poi in buzzsaw. can some one link me to a video of this being done???? great qoute by the way durbs
EDITED_BY: poinoob (1204249768)
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