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Forums > Technical Discussion > Presoaking Wick Experiment #1
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
A while back you punks tried to convince me that extensive presoaking of wicks was of utmost importance in maintaining wick life. So I've decided to set the record straight with a scientific experiment.I'm in the process of making two small kevlar firepoi wicks: 38" per wick of 2" kevlar folded in a semi-cathedral style (one strand, alternating folding and folding back at 45 degrees) held together with my trusty wire hangar because bolts hurt.One I will presoak in pure lamp oil for 3 days, the other for 3 minutes before my first burn. I will then document their decay over several months using random hands to spin. I will then feed them to a large sampling of rats until half of them die thereby establishing both the validity of presoaking and the LD50 for firepoi.OK, I'm kidding about the rats, but is there anything else that would be helpful? Should I take photos? Am I missing something that you'll only bring up 6 months from now?
A while back you punks tried to convince me that extensive presoaking of wicks was of utmost importance in maintaining wick life. So I've decided to set the record straight with a scientific experiment.I'm in the process of making two small kevlar firepoi wicks: 38" per wick of 2" kevlar folded in a semi-cathedral style (one strand, alternating folding and folding back at 45 degrees) held together with my trusty wire hangar because bolts hurt.One I will presoak in pure lamp oil for 3 days, the other for 3 minutes before my first burn. I will then document their decay over several months using random hands to spin. I will then feed them to a large sampling of rats until half of them die thereby establishing both the validity of presoaking and the LD50 for firepoi.OK, I'm kidding about the rats, but is there anything else that would be helpful? Should I take photos? Am I missing something that you'll only bring up 6 months from now?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
337 posts
Location: London UK
337 posts
Location: London UK
Posted:
presoaking for the first burn only, or presoaking before each burn?
presoaking for the first burn only, or presoaking before each burn?
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member
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted:
How quickly you get them to stop smoldering after a burn also drasticly affects the life of a wick.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"
How quickly you get them to stop smoldering after a burn also drasticly affects the life of a wick.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"
We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Good call Knagi. I won't test that theory on this trial. I normally just let them burn naturally out so that shouldn't affect either poi more or less.I'll only be presoaking before the first burn as that is the wives tale... I mean fact that I am testing.
Good call Knagi. I won't test that theory on this trial. I normally just let them burn naturally out so that shouldn't affect either poi more or less.I'll only be presoaking before the first burn as that is the wives tale... I mean fact that I am testing.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Just wondering, do you you 'cure' your wicks before your first full length burn?
Just wondering, do you you 'cure' your wicks before your first full length burn?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Er... cure? What's that mean? Is there some kind of marinade you'd like me to try?
Er... cure? What's that mean? Is there some kind of marinade you'd like me to try?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Nope NYC, not a marinade
, but a method of treating your wicks before you burn them.When I have a new set of wicks (on any of my fire toys), I like to cure them before playing with them. I soak them in fuel for about 5-10 minutes, then set them alight. I burn that for about 30 seconds and then smother the flame out with a damp cloth. I then relight (without redipping) and let burn for about 30 seconds and then again smother out. I do that again and let it burn for another 30 seconds and smother out. I then resoak and am ready to play.Why, why, why delilah?From my experiences, new wicks burn a lot hotter than older wicks. I feel that my method of curing them, takes some of the intial heat out of them.Anyone else cure their wicks?[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 29 October 2001).]
Nope NYC, not a marinade
, but a method of treating your wicks before you burn them.When I have a new set of wicks (on any of my fire toys), I like to cure them before playing with them. I soak them in fuel for about 5-10 minutes, then set them alight. I burn that for about 30 seconds and then smother the flame out with a damp cloth. I then relight (without redipping) and let burn for about 30 seconds and then again smother out. I do that again and let it burn for another 30 seconds and smother out. I then resoak and am ready to play.Why, why, why delilah?From my experiences, new wicks burn a lot hotter than older wicks. I feel that my method of curing them, takes some of the intial heat out of them.Anyone else cure their wicks?[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 29 October 2001).] BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I don't 'cure' my wicks in the way you do, but I do soak them for 5-10 minutes, put them out with some fast moves, then resoak. i repeat this several times to ensure that the fuel has soaked right into the middle of the wicks.i've found that soemtimes, if I don't dunk them when theyre hot at first, the burn last a much shorter period of time, and the flames gradually go down from large to small.With the above exercise, the burns last longer and tend to stay the same size until near the end of the burn as the fuel goes out.My theory is that the fuel sometimes doesn't get into the middle of the wick, but its all just guesswork.I do what works, regardless of why...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
I don't 'cure' my wicks in the way you do, but I do soak them for 5-10 minutes, put them out with some fast moves, then resoak. i repeat this several times to ensure that the fuel has soaked right into the middle of the wicks.i've found that soemtimes, if I don't dunk them when theyre hot at first, the burn last a much shorter period of time, and the flames gradually go down from large to small.With the above exercise, the burns last longer and tend to stay the same size until near the end of the burn as the fuel goes out.My theory is that the fuel sometimes doesn't get into the middle of the wick, but its all just guesswork.I do what works, regardless of why...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
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NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Here's a quick one I tell my kids... If you ever get the flu, a surefire way to get better is to go out and kill 7 chickens. That's right, go out and sacrafice 7 chickens to me and you will be cured of the flu within three weeks guarenteed! They usually gasp and call me a liar, but it's true... then I ask them how long it takes to get over the flu, they usually respond a week or two... then they figure it out.My point is, just because you do something related to the wicks, doesn't mean it has a bearing on the wick life. That's why I'm conducting this mildly scientific experiment. Fortunately poi spin in pairs so we have a good platform to conduct controlled experiments. Any other experience related story ("My new cathedral 1/8" kevlar wicks that I used to hit the ground all the time with lasted much longer than my old 1/16" metal core fiberglass blend wicks that my dog chewed on") do nothing to compare each individual variable.Right now I'm gonna try to test the efficacy of presoaking only. If any of you would like to substansiate other pre burn rituals and sacrifices, I'd love to see the results...Also, if you sacrifice 7 chickens in my name you will be safe from all falling pianos for a week. If you can't find live chickens, just send me $7.
Here's a quick one I tell my kids... If you ever get the flu, a surefire way to get better is to go out and kill 7 chickens. That's right, go out and sacrafice 7 chickens to me and you will be cured of the flu within three weeks guarenteed! They usually gasp and call me a liar, but it's true... then I ask them how long it takes to get over the flu, they usually respond a week or two... then they figure it out.My point is, just because you do something related to the wicks, doesn't mean it has a bearing on the wick life. That's why I'm conducting this mildly scientific experiment. Fortunately poi spin in pairs so we have a good platform to conduct controlled experiments. Any other experience related story ("My new cathedral 1/8" kevlar wicks that I used to hit the ground all the time with lasted much longer than my old 1/16" metal core fiberglass blend wicks that my dog chewed on") do nothing to compare each individual variable.Right now I'm gonna try to test the efficacy of presoaking only. If any of you would like to substansiate other pre burn rituals and sacrifices, I'd love to see the results...Also, if you sacrifice 7 chickens in my name you will be safe from all falling pianos for a week. If you can't find live chickens, just send me $7.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Surely the chicken thing only works when the moon is new, and I turn around anti clockwise three times before the sacrificeGood points about experimental validation and reproducibility though. One question about your methodology, testing the efficacy of pre soacking in lamp oil is great - would it be worth comparing other fuels with this pre soaking method? A much larger and more expensive experiment granted....[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 29 October 2001).]
Surely the chicken thing only works when the moon is new, and I turn around anti clockwise three times before the sacrifice
Good points about experimental validation and reproducibility though. One question about your methodology, testing the efficacy of pre soacking in lamp oil is great - would it be worth comparing other fuels with this pre soaking method? A much larger and more expensive experiment granted....[This message has been edited by Ade (edited 29 October 2001).] member
5 posts
Location: New York, NY
5 posts
Location: New York, NY
Posted:
I'd just like to add... you are such a science teacher!!!-Coots
I'd just like to add... you are such a science teacher!!!-Coots
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ade, not sure if NSA or NASA will fun such a project... Maybe I can get Malcolm to pledge a $20M grant for some preliminary research..
Ade, not sure if NSA or NASA will fun such a project... Maybe I can get Malcolm to pledge a $20M grant for some preliminary research..
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Phase 1 initiated. Poi with triangle fold on top is now soaking in lamp oil. Hope to burn on Thursday...
Phase 1 initiated. Poi with triangle fold on top is now soaking in lamp oil. Hope to burn on Thursday...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
I couldn't find 7 chickens. I have, on the other hand, found 3 chickens, 2 ducks, a small yapping dog (some kind of terrier i think)and a large spider with a heart condition. Will this be OK?I'm not overly worried as it isn't piano season at the moment. But it's always better to be safe than sorry....------------------C@ntus
I couldn't find 7 chickens. I have, on the other hand, found 3 chickens, 2 ducks, a small yapping dog (some kind of terrier i think)and a large spider with a heart condition. Will this be OK?I'm not overly worried as it isn't piano season at the moment. But it's always better to be safe than sorry....------------------C@ntus
Meh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I dunno Cantus... As an Italian kid growing up in Brooklyn I think you'd better send me my $7 because just because you're far away doesn't mean that piano... "accidents" don't happen. It wood be a shame if you wuz to meet some unfortunate ends by means of a fawling piano alls because you forgot to pay up your protection moneys... Say, how's your family? Because it would be a shame if some nice lookin member of your family lost a kneecap to a falling piano... Wat? I'm only saying... we gotta look out for eachudder, capisce?
I dunno Cantus... As an Italian kid growing up in Brooklyn I think you'd better send me my $7 because just because you're far away doesn't mean that piano... "accidents" don't happen. It wood be a shame if you wuz to meet some unfortunate ends by means of a fawling piano alls because you forgot to pay up your protection moneys... Say, how's your family? Because it would be a shame if some nice lookin member of your family lost a kneecap to a falling piano... Wat? I'm only saying... we gotta look out for eachudder, capisce?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted:
My new 6 wick staff is now pre-soaking for 2 hours on each end. When that gets done they are getting covered in plastic bags then socks! And I'm gonna cure them this time! I dunno if it was that or just not takin any care of the orginals or if it was dropping that made them wear out so fast but I think I just set a record for destroying kevlar. july till october Replacing permenant wicks with 3 screws per wick is a pain in the fooking ass! Hehe also added my sliding wick idea to this set :P Wonder how long it will last.Anyone come up with anytype of long lasting kevlar wick dance? Would pissing on them make them last longer? Really anything you guys can come up with I'll do to these wicks ------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 31 October 2001).]
My new 6 wick staff is now pre-soaking for 2 hours on each end. When that gets done they are getting covered in plastic bags then socks! And I'm gonna cure them this time! I dunno if it was that or just not takin any care of the orginals or if it was dropping that made them wear out so fast but I think I just set a record for destroying kevlar. july till october
Replacing permenant wicks with 3 screws per wick is a pain in the fooking ass! Hehe also added my sliding wick idea to this set :P Wonder how long it will last.Anyone come up with anytype of long lasting kevlar wick dance? Would pissing on them make them last longer? Really anything you guys can come up with I'll do to these wicks ------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 31 October 2001).] We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
So let me get this straight. I pay you $7 and you lay off my bro with the piano wire? I think you're bluffing...
So let me get this straight. I pay you $7 and you lay off my bro with the piano wire? I think you're bluffing...
Meh
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Wire? Who said anything about piano wire? I'm talking about the whole dang piano! Pianos do have an awful tendancy to be dropped from high altitude. They make a pretty sound when they hit though...
Wire? Who said anything about piano wire? I'm talking about the whole dang piano! Pianos do have an awful tendancy to be dropped from high altitude. They make a pretty sound when they hit though...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Whats the "sliding wick" idea, Knagi? I've got a few ideas as its to do with a multiple-wick staff but could you fill me in properly.Cheers dude...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
Whats the "sliding wick" idea, Knagi? I've got a few ideas as its to do with a multiple-wick staff but could you fill me in properly.Cheers dude...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
AWKWARD AND UNEXPECTED TRANSITION BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THIS POST!I burned my virgin wicks last night and entered "phase 2" of my experiment. One wick which had been soaked for 40 hours, one wick which had soaked for 2 minutes. They both burned just as bright and just as long. In fact it was one of those blue moons where both wicks go out on the same rotation.Conclusion: Presoaking wicks does not affect the length or intensity of the initial burn.Questions still pending: Will presoaking affect the overall life of the wick? Stay tuned...
AWKWARD AND UNEXPECTED TRANSITION BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC OF THIS POST!I burned my virgin wicks last night and entered "phase 2" of my experiment. One wick which had been soaked for 40 hours, one wick which had soaked for 2 minutes. They both burned just as bright and just as long. In fact it was one of those blue moons where both wicks go out on the same rotation.Conclusion: Presoaking wicks does not affect the length or intensity of the initial burn.Questions still pending: Will presoaking affect the overall life of the wick? Stay tuned...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
397 posts
Location: Brunswick, Ohio
Posted:
hehe think your topic will be full of mindless bable befor you find out the answer to that questionThe sliding wicks are kevlar sleeves that I wrapped around the staff in a certain way as to have them tighten down as I put them on. The idea worked great for the fire 5 or so burns. However now what was quite firmly attached and hard to slide up and down. Is now loose and sliding closed when I spin it 
Oh well least they make for some interestingly large spin off's. Or for the 4 fire breathers going off them the other night
hehe think your topic will be full of mindless bable befor you find out the answer to that question
The sliding wicks are kevlar sleeves that I wrapped around the staff in a certain way as to have them tighten down as I put them on. The idea worked great for the fire 5 or so burns. However now what was quite firmly attached and hard to slide up and down. Is now loose and sliding closed when I spin it Oh well least they make for some interestingly large spin off's. Or for the 4 fire breathers going off them the other night We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
NYC, you've not been to Cheshire have you? If you can find a high alitude round here, Cityboy, to drop a piano from I'll give you your $7.No cheating and bringing an aircraft tho.
NYC, you've not been to Cheshire have you? If you can find a high alitude round here, Cityboy, to drop a piano from I'll give you your $7.No cheating and bringing an aircraft tho.
Meh
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
Good work NYC!! I guess my question about different fuel types might need to be investigated in terms of pre soaking. I'm wondering if kero might change the results? Anyone with new wicks they'd like to try this presoaking experiment with?------------------ade
Good work NYC!! I guess my question about different fuel types might need to be investigated in terms of pre soaking. I'm wondering if kero might change the results? Anyone with new wicks they'd like to try this presoaking experiment with?------------------ade
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Three months of steady and consistant burns later... both wicks are in good shape and are indistinguishable from eachother with respect to wear. After polling independant fire performers all agreed that both wicks had similar amounts of wear.CONCLUSION: Presoaking wicks in no way affects the wear on poi. It is merely a waste of time.Build, dunk, light, enjoy.
Three months of steady and consistant burns later... both wicks are in good shape and are indistinguishable from eachother with respect to wear. After polling independant fire performers all agreed that both wicks had similar amounts of wear.CONCLUSION: Presoaking wicks in no way affects the wear on poi. It is merely a waste of time.Build, dunk, light, enjoy.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Tantamount to fatuity
15,967 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom
Posted:
And presoaking chickens?
And presoaking chickens?
Meh
Ninja Rockstar!
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
1,100 posts
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Posted:
I may be wrong in this, but I doubt it.Pre-soaking the wicks doesn't do as much to prolong the life of the wick as much as post-soaking it does. When your wicks go out they ususally smoulder, so (if you use kero) putting them immediately back in the fuel will make your kevlar last much longer. For first burn on virgin wicks you just have to be shure that they are holding enough fuel to be burning the fuel and not the kevlar. But it's keeping them from smouldering that really keeps your wicks lasting.Burn **time**, however, is a diffirent story......Wow...*Puppy looks about drunkenly* Not a bad reply after eight pints of lager, eh?------------------If you love something, set it on fire.[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 06 January 2002).]
I may be wrong in this, but I doubt it.Pre-soaking the wicks doesn't do as much to prolong the life of the wick as much as post-soaking it does. When your wicks go out they ususally smoulder, so (if you use kero) putting them immediately back in the fuel will make your kevlar last much longer. For first burn on virgin wicks you just have to be shure that they are holding enough fuel to be burning the fuel and not the kevlar. But it's keeping them from smouldering that really keeps your wicks lasting.Burn **time**, however, is a diffirent story......Wow...*Puppy looks about drunkenly* Not a bad reply after eight pints of lager, eh?------------------If you love something, set it on fire.[This message has been edited by SickpuPpy (edited 06 January 2002).]
Jesus helps me trick people.
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