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Forums > Social Discussion > Humiliated Saddam
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
Posted:
https://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=24237
It was strange actually. When I first saw it I thought...'the poor man'...but then I thought...
'hold on a minute...look at all of the horrible things he's done'
Do you agree with those defending such an inhumane, cruel man?
Or do you think he deserved it?
Do you think the paper should apologise?
Should anyone be punished? The paper, the photographer?
Discuss.
https://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=24237
It was strange actually. When I first saw it I thought...'the poor man'...but then I thought...
'hold on a minute...look at all of the horrible things he's done'
Do you agree with those defending such an inhumane, cruel man?
Or do you think he deserved it?
Do you think the paper should apologise?
Should anyone be punished? The paper, the photographer?
Discuss.
.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
Mass murderer or not, he still has a right to be treated decently. that, in my opinion, is all there is to it.
Mass murderer or not, he still has a right to be treated decently. that, in my opinion, is all there is to it.
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
newbie
9 posts
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
9 posts
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posted:
Karma with a hint of justice perhaps?
I really don't know. Most situations like this have the defense of "He did all this, so he deserves blah blah blah" Which is true... in way
But why don't we just kill him, then? There should be no trial; i guess there is obvious evidence that he has committed a genocide, but people still defend him.
Maybe its just the moralists of today.
No one subjected to killing Adolf...
EDITED_BY: Cyrus (1116922408)
Karma with a hint of justice perhaps?
I really don't know. Most situations like this have the defense of "He did all this, so he deserves blah blah blah" Which is true... in way
But why don't we just kill him, then? There should be no trial; i guess there is obvious evidence that he has committed a genocide, but people still defend him.
Maybe its just the moralists of today.
No one subjected to killing Adolf...
EDITED_BY: Cyrus (1116922408)
Though I could use many large words to describe our predicament, all I can say is... "We're screwed."
analytic
503 posts
Location: bristol
503 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
i dunno: i think mass murderers don't deserve decent treatment
for instance, does locking people up in a metal cage constitute decent treatment? no - but sometimes people deserve to be locked up
[i'm not an apologist for the prison system, i think there's a lot wrong with it, but the point stands]
i dunno: i think mass murderers don't deserve decent treatment
for instance, does locking people up in a metal cage constitute decent treatment? no - but sometimes people deserve to be locked up
[i'm not an apologist for the prison system, i think there's a lot wrong with it, but the point stands]
ture na sig
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
Wow, this is an interesting debate. Enjoyed reading it. My 2cents...
I'm not denying that Saddam has had his human rights infringed upon, if we look at the Human Rights treaty as drawn up in the Geneva convention we can see this. The government signed the treaty, I think they do have some moral obligations to try and uphold it. It's main goal is to see all people treated as equals, so no one person should have more 'rights' than another to things like food, shelter, education, work, a fair trial e.t.c. The principal of the thing is lovely. It aims to provide for all basic needs, saying nobody should be allowed to go homeless and hungry.
What gets me is how people, mainly Saddam's lawyers, make a big song and dance about how his human rights are violated. Human rights don't just happen to exist because people are nice and the world is lovely, in reality they have to be fought for every day.
What annoys me is how so much fuss can be made over these photos, when there are so many people across the world who have their rights infringed every single day, who are not aware they have any rights and are exploited, and who suffer greatly as a consequence.
Wow, this is an interesting debate. Enjoyed reading it. My 2cents...
I'm not denying that Saddam has had his human rights infringed upon, if we look at the Human Rights treaty as drawn up in the Geneva convention we can see this. The government signed the treaty, I think they do have some moral obligations to try and uphold it. It's main goal is to see all people treated as equals, so no one person should have more 'rights' than another to things like food, shelter, education, work, a fair trial e.t.c. The principal of the thing is lovely. It aims to provide for all basic needs, saying nobody should be allowed to go homeless and hungry.
What gets me is how people, mainly Saddam's lawyers, make a big song and dance about how his human rights are violated. Human rights don't just happen to exist because people are nice and the world is lovely, in reality they have to be fought for every day.
What annoys me is how so much fuss can be made over these photos, when there are so many people across the world who have their rights infringed every single day, who are not aware they have any rights and are exploited, and who suffer greatly as a consequence.
Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Quiet, I agree...he doesn't deserve decent treatment ONCE HE IS FOUND GUILTY.
Remember, we are better than he because of how we treat our enemies...or we should be. Anyone can be nice to their friends. It's how you treat your enemies that says the most about you.
Quiet, I agree...he doesn't deserve decent treatment ONCE HE IS FOUND GUILTY.
Remember, we are better than he because of how we treat our enemies...or we should be. Anyone can be nice to their friends. It's how you treat your enemies that says the most about you.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
I agree Lightning. The question comes up then though when is it ok to find him guilty? Do we as the general public, being informed by many different news sources and books on the subject, know enough to look at him and say "He is definitely guilty"? A lot of people thought OJ Simpson was guilty too but he got off. Of course he only supposedly killed two people, not whole villages of people... We can much more easily look at Saddam and say "He's a murdering f**khead and doesn't deserve decent treatment".
However, I still agree that he deserves a trial as anyone else, and doesn't deserve to be treated badly until after that, at which point the argument becomes something wholly different.
I agree Lightning. The question comes up then though when is it ok to find him guilty? Do we as the general public, being informed by many different news sources and books on the subject, know enough to look at him and say "He is definitely guilty"? A lot of people thought OJ Simpson was guilty too but he got off. Of course he only supposedly killed two people, not whole villages of people... We can much more easily look at Saddam and say "He's a murdering f**khead and doesn't deserve decent treatment".
However, I still agree that he deserves a trial as anyone else, and doesn't deserve to be treated badly until after that, at which point the argument becomes something wholly different.
analytic
503 posts
Location: bristol
503 posts
Location: bristol
Posted:
'What annoys me is how so much fuss can be made over these photos, when there are so many people across the world who have their rights infringed every single day, who are not aware they have any rights and are exploited, and who suffer greatly as a consequence.
Damn straight
Now, I agree that he hasn't quite been found guilty in any particularly formal sense, yet. But we all know that he gassed the Kurds. That's guilty enough for me.
'What annoys me is how so much fuss can be made over these photos, when there are so many people across the world who have their rights infringed every single day, who are not aware they have any rights and are exploited, and who suffer greatly as a consequence.
Damn straight
Now, I agree that he hasn't quite been found guilty in any particularly formal sense, yet. But we all know that he gassed the Kurds. That's guilty enough for me.
ture na sig
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Quiet,
'We all know he's guilty' is EXACTLY the way that despots work. Due process may seem unnecessary. "He was caught red-handed!" but it's not there to put the guilty in jail. It's there to protect the innocent, to prevent the world from becoming a police state, and to ensure that justice is carried out.
It's lengthy, costly, and frustrating. But if you oppose it, then you support every despot ruler that has ever existed. Because THEY used their police to imprison people they simply didn't like.
Hussein will be tried, he will be found guilty, and he'll be punished. Just be patient. But next time YOU do something wrong, say, getting caught with a bit of marijuana or even doing something accidental, boy will you be glad to have the opportunity to have a trial. Even when 'everybody already knows you did it.'
Quiet,
'We all know he's guilty' is EXACTLY the way that despots work. Due process may seem unnecessary. "He was caught red-handed!" but it's not there to put the guilty in jail. It's there to protect the innocent, to prevent the world from becoming a police state, and to ensure that justice is carried out.
It's lengthy, costly, and frustrating. But if you oppose it, then you support every despot ruler that has ever existed. Because THEY used their police to imprison people they simply didn't like.
Hussein will be tried, he will be found guilty, and he'll be punished. Just be patient. But next time YOU do something wrong, say, getting caught with a bit of marijuana or even doing something accidental, boy will you be glad to have the opportunity to have a trial. Even when 'everybody already knows you did it.'
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It's not our job to find Saddam guilty. It's the court's job.
And I'd rather see a thousand guilty men walk than one innocent man hang.
Written by: i8beefy2
I agree Lightning. The question comes up then though when is it ok to find him guilty? Do we as the general public, being informed by many different news sources and books on the subject, know enough to look at him and say "He is definitely guilty"? A lot of people thought OJ Simpson was guilty too but he got off. Of course he only supposedly killed two people, not whole villages of people... We can much more easily look at Saddam and say "He's a murdering f**khead and doesn't deserve decent treatment".
It's not our job to find Saddam guilty. It's the court's job.
And I'd rather see a thousand guilty men walk than one innocent man hang.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Disagree with you on the last point I'm afraid, Doc.
I entirely support the things you've said before, but it's infinately more preferable to kill one innocent man to ensure the removal of the threat that 1000 criminals present.
Obviously not if they're all shoplifters or something, but what if they're all murderers and rapists? Would you die to save 1000 (let's assume 1 victim per criminal) people from rape or murder? I know I would.
Disagree with you on the last point I'm afraid, Doc.
I entirely support the things you've said before, but it's infinately more preferable to kill one innocent man to ensure the removal of the threat that 1000 criminals present.
Obviously not if they're all shoplifters or something, but what if they're all murderers and rapists? Would you die to save 1000 (let's assume 1 victim per criminal) people from rape or murder? I know I would.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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