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Forums > Social Discussion > Testing the demand for a new poi separatist group

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Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
Hmmm, I think I might be the only member of this minority by now... just thought I'd see if there is still a group of weaving, butterflying nuts out there. I'm going to call this group of few or many:



the New Ideas for Circular Exploration alliance (NICE)



We at NICE, feel that simple weaves and butterflies are very nice and deserve to still be allowed to be considered innovative and fresh if explored well.



Seriously though, I LOVE them and I still don't feel I'm even half way through with them. Give me 20 more years, then I feel I'll -really- be weaving and butterflying.



I would love to hear from any like minded 'Applicants' and any nice ideas they may have. Please biggrin



Jo. wink
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109039586)

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bluecatgeek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere

Posted:
we at Circles Remove Aesthetic Principles (CRAP) disagree.
wink

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

ImmortalAngelSILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Posted:
Well said Bluecat! *laughs*
Jo, check out Spherculism for a step by step increasing of weave and butterflie variations...don't know if that came out right. It's got tutorials of basic weaves, then he'll add one more point to it every tutorial til he's doing 7bt btb reverse with fakey and backflips ^.^'

Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />

nearly_all_goneSILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Posted:
I was thinking of forming the Circles Are Nice Too group yesterday.. "CAN'T" has a nice positive ring to it ubblol

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
Ha ha nice one guys, thanks I think?



The irony I think I was aiming at is that if you calculate the number of weave/bfly variants (like I'm sure you Sphercs have by now nutters wink )



Because I'm lazy lets assume it's 100 (conservative, right?)



That means any combo of 2 there's 10000 combos, 3 = 1000000, 4 = 100000000



And that's before you multiply by infinity for body movement



And then multiply by infinity for execution.



Also, if anti-circle is assumed to be the only possible route for future innovations, then they could dry up (burn out) just the same when the old 'dancer' ethos of 'tech can't flow freestyle' actualy *does* become trueish... ...just a thought - doesn't mean I can't wait to see and perform new crazy, crazy stuff.



Maybe if creative energies were shared more evenly the flow will be Intrinsically linked at the same speed as the technical progression. That is what I've tended to strive for in myself, but is also why I'm technically behind so the case works both ways.



Don't worry, I will be catchin' up with you *true* techies at some point but I have pressing priorities right now.



Jo. smile



PS there are plenty of sexually circular moves in my head just *itching* for the skill to come out. I know you guys must have the same dreams but aren't letting on (or do you only dream arcs and globes these days?... wink )
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109049960)

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PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Posted:
I am completely with you Jo - you da man! hug

Katinca and I have coined the term 'Renaissance' to describe the stylistic group that I think you are getting at. Basically we are trying to fuse the spirit of the old school dance twirlers with all the full body flow, spirit, musicality and execution with the current movement of twirling, contortions (5bt btb etc) and poi centric moves (stalls, loops, isos, etc). Of course this also extends to all other toys; clubs (the essence of what we are talking about), doubles etc. I think it can be applied to contact staff too. Basically we are post-technical and post-post modern :P

lol I think I might get flamed for this..oh well. its been a while smile

And yeah - you take a hit on your tech points, but IMHO its worth it.

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA

Posted:
Oh no...



We true hardcore poists have been spinning boxes for quite some time now! Circles are so outdated. ubblol



On another note, it's amazing what one can do with circles, a couple different directions and planes to spin, as well as an infinite amount of rotation points.



I'm still learning, I'm too used to the ADD spazziness of spiraling wraps. wink



I like what you said in PM Jo, of dance versus technical. It has been on my mind for quite some time, and I try to follow a middle road down the two paths. I'm not quite on either path I feel.



EDIT- Josh, don't worry, my technical sucks, far far worse than yours. Yet I still try to make up for it with this elusive "style" I keep hearing about. biggrin
EDITED_BY: KaelGotRice (1109036599)

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
Phew!

Thanks Josh, Kat, and Kael. Thought I was about to get roasted then.... smile

"Basically we are post-technical and post-post modern"
Josh - 22/02/2005

lol

Jo.

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA

Posted:
Oooooooooooooooooooh Jo, can I join?

I am all about moving and the many uses of butterfly and weave, and ways to achieve variations by moving the body more than the poi.

Within these are also something that I miss, size variations, not just directions and placement.

Please let me in! I'll even bat my eyelashes and try to look purty! wink

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

pkBRONZE Member
Lambretta Fanatic
4,997 posts
Location: United Kingdom

Posted:
Nonsense Antispin Style is Too Yank, Pointless Or Intrieging? N.A.S.T.Y P.O.I



Im totally in with the N.I.C.E, probably cos its been well over a year and a half since playing poi properly to be any way interested in the technicalities.... but i asure you i have plans.... this will all change when in italy and i have space time and company and people to teach again.
Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
"pre-technical and post-post modern" works too.



Oh hang on - that doesn't make sense. But you know what I mean...



I think its all about balancing technical knowledge and artistic/dance creativity to express yourself best, whether newB or old timer. smile



Jo.



Pele, thanks for joining the gang. We're not just being lazy are we wink
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109049264)

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Dragon7GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand

Posted:
Im down with that. biggrin But im old skool so...
DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Posted:
oh wow, so suddenly I don't feel bad for not focusing only on technical spinning biggrin

thanks JD

it's nice to hear some refreshing ideas

ohh ohh! pick me?!?! hug

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Mr MajestikSILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia

Posted:
its like anything, a balance is best. hence i am making my own break-away group called New Ideas for Circular Exploration and Circles Remove Aesthetic Principles (N.I.C.E 'n' C.R.A.P) :P

dance is by no means a substitute for technicals because dance is basically for other people to enjoy, while technical is for your own benefit. sure, if you do a simple show that people really liked you might feel good, but i know you'd feel even better if you added a technical trick that you'd been working on and then pulled it off in the show.

cant everyone just keep the NICE CRAP going? and then it'll all go off!

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

spiralxveteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK

Posted:
Technical stuff is only worth learning for me if it can help my flow and movement - a fair amount of it allows you to move the poi in and out of spaces and positions you otherwise wouldn't be able to and thus gives you more freedom of expression.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

_Stix_Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land

Posted:
I'm in.. for me it's much more about movement and freedom of expresion than technical wizardry... but I guess I feel like this coz the youngsters new moves are well beyond this ol' lady biggrin I just stand there job smacked..

so YEAH UP WITH THE CIRCLES... woot woot!!

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom

Posted:
hmm, you wouldn't happen to be producing a prop that is solid and therefore restricts one to spinning in circles would ya mr derry...? tongue wink



peek - antispin *is* just circles.

imho meenik started the craze and he definitely can't be accused of being over-tech or non-flowy.

its easy anyway, just spin backwards and forwards at the same time, with the same arm wink



[those comments are tongue in cheek - i hope neither came off as cynical. just being careful cos i may sound grumpy today even though i'm not trying to be - work is crap, its teasingly sunny outside and i all i want is a bloody hug - but can i get one?! frown]



josh - your 'renaissance' idea supports a theory that came to me a while back.

do you think that there are cycles related to twirling?

to me, it seems technical levels of poi seem to increase in bursts.

when that innovation begins to run dry, and the techniques you have learnt become second nature (like any other move in your repertoire), it gives rise to the incorporation of those moves (that often required lots of thought to learn) into your routines and freestyle spins.

you find ways to play with what you've learnt.



i.e. the cycle is:

we learn a new technique; we explore the technical limits of that technique as far as we understand it; we learn what we have discovered backwards, forwards and sideways to give us the largest scope for movement possible; we try and integrate it into our dance, into the whole; rinse and repeat.



remember when you first learnt some poi moves?

you first have to learn the moves, then you learn to link them up and get them to flow so you can dance with them (you develop your own style), then you move on to new areas and learn some moves that seem techy compared to what you know, then you go back to trying to learning to flow with what you have learnt.



my guess is that once you are happy with how you perform what you consider 'techy' moves right now (the main denominator of 'tech' being "i don't incorpoate this move smoothly into my dance yet"), you will go back to learning techniques again before you move back to getting the new technique to blend with your individual style.



this is no renaissance - its simply people learning to spin.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
Coleman:



"this is no renaissance - its simply people learning to spin."



Yes - that's it in a nutshell - so over stressing technicality can cause people not to learn to spin. And to be ignorant of the many ways to look at progression.



Reverse is true too... balance etc...



I really started this thread because I don't like the emergence of genres in poi or even in spinning. They are counter-productive because it is the same art and everybody (I think) enjoys seeing all types of spinner - but especially 'hybrids'.



Jo. smile



Great to see all you oldschoolers still around. Dantana!!!! *runs through computer monitor and smashes Dan with a massive hug* How r u mate?

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

BEZERKERenthusiast
237 posts

Posted:
Sticks up hand to join N.I.C.E.

All these muli-beat behind the back freaks scare me off and demotivate me 'cause I almost feel like I'll never be able to keep up....

Nice to remeber a time when someone complimented me on one of the best spins I ever had at a party (in *that* state). All it was was weaves and butterflies but was just in the groove and flowing with the go.

Viva la Renaissance!
PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA

Posted:
Dantana!!!!!!!!!!!!! hug

Well Jo, I can honestly say, lazy is not something I get called usually.

Maybe the techs are being lazy cause they don't move their bodies. Isn't that what the health dept. says? If you don't move your body then you are being lazy? wink ubbloco

I love all spinning styles, at least to watch. smile
My mediocre spinning style does not allow for me to do anything but circles and variations off of them. wink

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

MrConfusedBRONZE Member
addict
529 posts
Location: I wish I knew, United Kingdom

Posted:
An excuse not to bother with learning those damn hyperloops?? I'm in!

J

If you're not confused, you're not thinking about things hard enough.

_khan_SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA

Posted:
Can I be N.I.C.E. too? I love the circles, the circles are what I'm in it for. I'm with the weave & butterfly contingent, though I'm ever-so-slightly obsessed with flowers at the mo. But still -- circles! circles inside circles...mmmmmm

Though tech & flow are not mutually exclusive. I've seen some wonderful & beautiful spins in which hyperloops and isolations are seamlessly part of it. (I've only read about atomics and trinity, but haven't seen video or anyone do these things in person.) Can't we shoot for the best of both?

I'll be frank here and say this discussion makes me nervous. I was happily going about my business, learning the moves that appealed to me, working on my flow, learning to express what it is I have to express through this medium, but now suddenly I feel pressure to keep abreast of the current stylistic fashions and the worst thing I can think of is to learn how to do stuff I'm not particularly interested in solely because everyone else is doing it and I wanna be cool too.

So N.I.C.E. sounds nice to me.

And...
Written by: coleman


[those comments are tongue in cheek - i hope neither came off as cynical. just being careful cos i may sound grumpy today even though i'm not trying to be - work is crap, its teasingly sunny outside and i all i want is a bloody hug - but can i get one?! frown]

hug hug hug

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA

Posted:
Flowers are circles... they're like a planned misplacement of circles that end up looking quite brilliant. wink

There are some spinners who just live in a completely different world than the others - maybe someday we'll all get along.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

DJ DantanaBRONZE Member
veteran
1,495 posts
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Posted:
Jo, my friend, I'm doing ok man. It's good to see you around too. wink

Hi Pele hug nice to see you too.

Old School huh? we're the geriatric ward, huh?

:P

So, I spun fire last night and almost didn't even do a btb weave. Is that progress? maybe... like maybe there are more things to life than btb weaves (heretic?!) yea. so? What does this mean?

I still stand by my statement of +4 yeas ago... hot chick doing weave is cool! :P And much better than stationary techeon.

We create magic and use magic. We often do not realize this. We take it for granted. It is like nothing to us, because we understand how it works. It is our thing. It is where we get our cookies.

But move your perspective outside of yourself to the random person on the street. Now add exothermic chemical reactions (fire) and darkness for contrast.

Any technology sufficiently advanced will appear as magic to the uninitiated. Example? Some things I have seen Arashi do, I know I am not ignorant of poi-mechanics, but magic is indeed the word.

So if I, one of the initiated, see it as magic? Can you imagine what the lay person thinks? And you wonder why their eyes tend to glaze over...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

_pOp_BRONZE Member
Playing OldSchool Poi
593 posts
Location: amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted:
whooooooo!!! count me in for some N.I.C.E. C.R.A.P. too....
devil but to be the devil's advocate for a minute: aren't hyperloops also "weave variations", just like 5, 7 beat or reverse weaves? isn't anything that doesn't require direction change a weave variation ubbloco and aren't even direction changes weave variations and if so then wraps must be weave variations as well, and also..... ubblol

meditate eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Jomember
517 posts
Location: Sheffield, England

Posted:
Nice words, Dan.



Parliament, I am going further than to say weaves and butterflies can be creative and fresh - I'm saying even same-time low turns haven't been touched....



EDIT - oh hang on - that was what you were saying wasn't it? Don't mind me... ubbloco



Jo. smile
EDITED_BY: Jo (1109135677)

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Posted:
Um...I just spin poi. shrug

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Posted:
I like the way you think cole, but I've still got some reservations about your key subtext (and correct me if I've got this wrong); There are no fashions in poi movement, there are no social groupings of poi movement - its all down to individual differences and rates of learning.

I dont see how your theory explains the massive differences in style we see both geographically and over time. I've only been in the game 5 years, but during that time I've travelled a fair bit. It seems to me that there is more at play here than just 'becoming comfortable with moves that are initially difficult'.

I may not have been clear, but by renaissance I mean a social change in the values behind the practice and performance.

I'll go out on a limb here. It seems to me that for the last couple of years it has become increasingly popular to try to pull off the most jedi moves to the detriment of flow and grace (and spirit - but thats a difficult one to quantify). Im advocating a change in values, rather than in the actual moves being performed.

A hug too late is still a hug? hug

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

KaelGotRiceGOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA

Posted:
Written by: Josh


It seems to me that for the last couple of years it has become increasingly popular to try to pull off the most jedi moves to the detriment of flow and grace (and spirit - but thats a difficult one to quantify).
Josh



This is true, especially among the glowstringers of North America.

I think the problem is that too many people are spinning to impress, rather than for themselves and their own happiness. The simple joy of picking up poi and the joy of the dance.

It's my meditation.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

OrbitSILVER Member
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA

Posted:
Yayy! I wanna be NICE CRAP too...

Jo, glad to see you're back on HOP, since I missed your first incarnation...

I agree -- too much tech talk, let's talk style/flow/dance! Who's gonna start some threads?
OrbitSILVER Member
enthusiast
270 posts
Location: USA

Posted:
Um... which forum would style threads go into? Are they social or moves?
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