Forums > Social Chat > Predicting the future?

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
A close friend of mine went to a great fortune teller. He told her stuff about her past that she could not talk about with anyone and told her she should seek counselling to help. She took his advice and dealt with a lot of troubling issues. He was right on about a few other things that would happen to her in the future, and we are talking details not vague references.

I think a good fortune tellers can predict what path you on, but those who let them dictate what choices they make are fools.

If everyone believed that our destiny was predetermined nwith no input from us or those around us, then why would people bother making an effort at anything?

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
I'm with Kat. A good reader reads your personality as it stands here and now. They don't really predict your future, but can think through what would happen if you continue on the path you are on.

You can choose to change that path, or choose not to.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
*IF* your future was written in stone then even knowing about it would change/alter that future.

(see most Greek Mythology tales for great examples of this at work)

Situations like that you described are just self-fullfilling prophecies. Like voodoo which has no inherent power, but can strike you dead of a heart attack if you truly believe that rubbing that monkey's foot three times against a wax figurine made with your hair is what does the trick!

The real proof of the pudding in terms of telling the future is this: why are these psychics working out of corner stalls and in the back pages of magazines? Shouldn't they all be rich? I mean, if I could tell the score of the next Wimbledon final before the first round had been played, I'd put all my money down against heavy odds, then go buy my own island in the tropics!

Raph

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
i think that she shouldnt listen to that tape.. we make out future.. we make what should be there.. and believing so much in that tape is making her future for her.. so sad...
*sneaks in the back door and takes the tape and runs*

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
Neon went right into the swing of things, coolness. Aye she shouldnt listen to the tape. I do believe that are future is set and we can do nothing to change it. I also feel that nobody knows the future so whos to say what will really happen.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
I agree with the concept of self fulfilling prophecies.
but...
i wont repeat any obvious points, but i will say that penis enlargement/diet pills are extremely popular.
we typically dismiss these pills as we do fortune tellers.
These things can be seen as ridiculous, but the sad reality is...
people want to be deceived
eg. the person that pops that pill has a weak hope that the pill will make 'em lose 20 pounds, and has a strong desire not to intensively exercise+diet for weight loss.
This phenomenon can be used to analyse Malcolm's poor friend. Sometimes it's easier to grasp a justification than to fix the biggeer picture.

I am biased cus my life's devotion to esoterism - human nature is a deceiving place.

The woman in the story has one great advantage: she knows a great, honourable man.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
There's this quantum mechanics theory that basically says that at every instant in time, anything that is possible MUST happen. So that means that every instant, the universe fragments into a gagillion pieces with each one representing a different possibility.

There's also a theory that time is just another dimension and that we're stuck at one point in time and that we're moving in one direction in time. So that means that every other instant already exists and thus it should be possible to predict the future.

But if the universe keeps fragmenting, even if we could see all of those instants, how would we know which one to look at? Because somewhere in another universe, I didn't buy a poppyseed muffin for lunch, I got blueberry instead! And it really frightens me to think of how many universes there are where I was never born...or where I died!

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 25th Sep 2002
The fortune teller has definately created the future as your friend sees it. The idea that she will not find happiness untill husband no.3 has been planted in her head and, because she has not stepped away from it and realised that your life is what you make of it, means that she will probably not allow herself to be happy until husband no.3 comes along.

I also think that having a copy of the tape is not helping things as she can listen to the details again and again whenever anything goes wrong in her current relationship, worry over why she is not happy, and the idea is reinforced. If she didnt have the tape she would probably have forgotten all about the meeting by now (or at least not be living her life by it) and when she had an argument with her husband would just dismisss it as 'normal' (I don't think a relationship is healthy if you never have any disagreements!)

Hope this helps and hope your friend can realise that she can be happy with whoever she chooses regardless of what someone else says.

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
I'm not sure if fortune telling the way gypsies and mystics go about it is real. I do believe that it's much the same as horiscopes, that there are some underlying themes to ones that can be identified and are usually the same from person to person. Eg. bullied when young, feelings of depression, fear of not finding happiness, etc. Most of us have experianced these things in one form or another. From there the teller just needs to coax the rest of the information out of you.

I do however believe that it is possible to have inclinations about what the future may have in store, like gut feelings (this has happened to me several times). The first time that I can remeber was the day I found out 3 of my friends died in a car crash the day before. Woke up that morning and the day felt... wrong. I even told several of my friends at school, and of course they just laughed at me. But this feeling stuck with me all day until later at work one of my other friends called me to pass on the news. Not exactly fortune telling, as they had died the day before, but still odd. This was my strongest, and first, experiance.

Since then there have been several ocations where I have had VERY strong inclinations to do something and they have all turned out much as expected (in general, not specifics). One told me to go to a party that night which I had not intended to go to. There I met someone who offered me a job spinning fire at his bar. Others have been even more trivial.

This has however lead me to believe that it is possible to "see" into the future to some extent.

I thought that it was quantum mechanics that identifyied 9 dimensions, time being the 4th. And according to physics (as we live in a univers governed by these laws, or so it is believed) if we were to know the exact location and momentum of every particle in the universe at one point it time, it should be possible to acurately predict the location and momentum of each in another instant also known as predicting the future. I'd better stop now, I do love physics (the theory, not the math).

The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Mike Ginny, im with you

the number of times i have stepped out onto a road carelessly, and had the breif chilling thought, that somewhere, in another place/time/space another version of me just got hit by a car....

its eerie.

Currently on the right side up of the world.

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Mike there was a scam that could be tied into your Quantome theory...

A man sent out 100,000 news letters. Half said the stock market would go up and the other half said it would go down by the end of the week. (this is the abriviated story)

It went up and the man sent a letter to the half that he predicted it would go up. It basically said that if they wished to recive good stock info again they had to pay him $x.xx. Those that paid never saw another letter just like those who didnt.

Did he predict the future, according to mikes theory he did, twice!

Frankly quantome physics are nothing more than complex theorys designed to make the user look smart.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
I believe that ultimately we choose what path we take. For instance this lady has chose the path set out by the fortune teller, she could have easily said bugger you I'm gonna stay with my first husband just to spite you Mr Fortune teller, or she can just as easily stop channelling negative energy into the relationship and decide how her 2nd marriage will progress instead of letting the tape make that choice for her. If you tell yourself every day that you are going to fall over and break your legs eventually it will become your reality. Thought and word are powerful things.

An astrologer (spelling?) told my mum that she would win lotto around september this year, about 4 years ago a fortune teller told her the exact same thing. Last night I dreamt that she won lotto and I the dreams I do remember are very often premenitions. I will dream a certain scene or event and sometime in the next week or so that event happens or I see that exact same scene somewhere. For example I had a dream where I was standing at my front door and this moth flew at my face then my cat walked up behind me rubbing itself up against my legs as my mum walked to the door with some shopping bags. A couple of days later that exact scene played out infront of me. Pretty random I know but stuff like that always happens to me. For me it distorts my whole perception of time because I would have experiences before I have them in real life. hmmm strange aye?

Either way I'll keep you guys posted if my mummy does win lotto.

HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Coming in on behalf of those like me who were brought up with/as spiritual mediums.

The break down:

"Fortune Tellers/Psychics" They do not tell the future. Only hacks do that. They use what energies you put out to interpret the path you are on.

"Mediums" do and can communicate with those who have passed, but it is for closure and comfort, not for future knowledge purposes.

Both are merely interpreters. One interprets your own energies, the other more metaphysical energies.

For example:

Runes, Tarot Cards, Tea Leaves (all of which I do), psychometry (my friend is very good at this): A proper reader will have the one being read touch, manipulate and handle the objects being read. I have my victims..er..friends shuffle the tarot cards any way they want as long as they want. They then cut the deck and hand them back to me. This imbues the deck with their energy. They put the cards in an order, subconciously. I merely flip them and interpret them. The cards are a catalyst. I am an interpreter. The person I am doing the reading for literally does all the work. This reading reflects where they are now and if they remain on the path makes suggestions as to how life may go. There is no seeing into forever. These are usually private (meaning no tape recordings) and people are pretty surprised.

In the case of mediumship..conversing with those on the other side, spirit guides, reading past lives: these use energies that are put out both by the person being read and the world around us.
It is like a form of meditation where you put yourself, as a reader, in a state to welcome these energies. Sometimes it comes in the way of voices, sometimes it is more visual (as with me) and sometimes it is merely an impression. This gets interpretated for the person being read and usually comes with a message regarding the present, not the future.
I do past life readings. I hate to do them generally, they are very emotional and draining as such. I see a persons death first and work back through their lives, which is hard. The thing about knowing past lives is that you can do things like explain irrational fears or attractions. My example is a reading I did for a girl I will name Mel. She wanted her reading in a room full of people so we set them up in chairs, she and I on a couch, low lighting and quiet. She blanked her mind, I concentrated and gold appeared alot in her lives. She has gold hair and this sick facination for the metal, she literally wants everything gold. It seems she always had. In the room at the time was her brother. For some reason, I was drawn in the middle of her reading to him. I looked at him and said "Blue Kite. You died trying to reach the blue kite." Both he and Mel turned white. He had failed a class in high school because he hated kites so much he refused to design and make one. Mel had been given kites as a child but he always broke them before she could let them fly. See, no future. Just insights into yourself.

There are also those physical turns such as palm reading, phrenology and hand writing analysis. These tell you about yourself, not really your future. Your right palm tells you the path you are on as opposed to your left telling the path you were born on. If they match (which is rare) then you are a pretty steady person. Most people don't match and all that means is they have changed their paths and made different choices through their lives.

Thing is, if you look hard enough you can find personal symbolism in anything about you, from the way you dress to how you wear your hair to how you stand. As a performer, I need to recognise those things about people. It does not mean I am psychic, just good at what I do.
The only person who has control over your own future is you.
And before I get fried for being a crackhead, please remember, I was born with this and raised this way. We all have the abilities to see beyond the physical, but like any other skill it needs to be nourished and taught. Many people are afriad of what they do not understand, and with the Hollywood bastardization of mediums into "psychic gypsy fortune tellers" it makes people more apt to shy away, but still be intrigued.

And btw, people do get rich and famous from these arts...John Edward, Sylvia Browne, Steven Johenson(sp?)... Many work with police detectives and such now. It is becomming more accepted, not as a future telling device but a comfort device.

In the case of your friend, Malcolm, it is self fulfilling prophecy. She is probably using husband two as a stepping stone to get to husband three, which means she could be subconciously sabotaging her own marriage, making fights more frequent and worse than they need to be. In this situation, I feel bad for the oblivious husband, and sincerely hope the man she chooses to be number three can live up to the expectations.

Sorry about the long post, it's something I am passionate about.

[ 27 September 2002, 02:23: Message edited by: Pele ]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
I think in your example, the future was created.
perhaps your friend isnt trying hard enough, trying to make it fail.

I do however believe in psychics(sp).
My mom is one, and on more than one occasion
I have seen her hit the nail on the head. I
dont mean vague "its gonna get dark tonight" kind of things.... Im talking about things like "Dont go out with dave tonight, if you do take your own car." and the next morning dave is dead.

I smell something burning.

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
burningbyron, what you saw in your premonition was some information from the astral.
It is incredibly tempting to share suck knowledge with others, but one thing i have learnt is that the astral is a very spiritual place and this information is sacred. the consequences of sharing such sacred knowledge is a long time of blackness for you.
Both Astral travel and dreams are loaded with important spiritual information, but it is important that sacred knowledge should be treated as such. Get a dream interpretation book for your dream symbology and the Jewish Kabalah for the numerology of what you see, but don't share the message that was meant for you alone.
I say this to ya now because i see you're interested in the spiritual, but no-one warned me at the start that such information is sacred! Wise use of knowledge will earn you more karma to explore more about your life.
You can learn about the physical states you feel as mental faculties such as intuition and premonitions if you take the esoteric path - it's explained soo much of the wierd shit i've encountered! I was originally a science only person, but esotericism truly fills in the spiritual blanks for me.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Posted: 26th Sep 2002

quote:

---

Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Mike there was a scam that could be tied into your Quantome theory...

A man sent out 100,000 news letters. Half said the stock market would go up and the other half said it would go down by the end of the week. (this is the abriviated story)

It went up and the man sent a letter to the half that he predicted it would go up. It basically said that if they wished to recive good stock info again they had to pay him $x.xx. Those that paid never saw another letter just like those who didnt.

Did he predict the future, according to mikes theory he did, twice!

---

See, now that's not quantum theories, that's just a really smart man. Evil, yes, deserving of thumb screws, yes, but smart.

Unless he got caught...

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Actually, I know a thing or six about quantum mechanics. Actually no I don't although I did study it at Uni for long enough to know that I don't know it.

However, it is a physical impossibility to measure the precise position and momentum of a subatomic particle at any point in time. The act of measurement represents a perturbance of the system and so basically mucks everything up. Plus you have the laws of thermodynamics, which state that systems will always go towards a higher state of entropy (disorder) therefore we observe time as a linear thread ( you can't go back in time as the past is more ordered than the future - think about it)

Anyway this all a load of old rubbish as it only governs the molecular scale of things - you have to differentiate it from our macromolecular world. Besides if we didn't we would all be diffracted when we walked through a doorway thanks to Mr. deBroglie and our intrinsic wavelength

Now that I have bored everyone senseless and your heads hurt royally, just take the comforting thought that we all head to chaos ( a state of maximum entropy). Hey, makes you realise that Dubya, Tony and Saddam are just following the laws of physics.

Oh dear!

I don't know what it is thats making you stupid but its working!-----------------------------------I'm away to Morningside for a fish supper-Team Buddies

Posted: 26th Sep 2002

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Brick Layer:
\

Anyway this all a load of old rubbish as it only governs the molecular scale of things - you have to differentiate it from our macromolecular world. Besides if we didn't we would all be diffracted when we walked through a doorway thanks to Mr. deBroglie and our intrinsic wavelength.

---

See, depending on what you're on, you may just have an intrinsic wavelength long enough to be diffracted while walking through a doorway.

Happened to me once...

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Actually on my way home tonight I was diffracted a number of times....

there are now loads of me about terrorising Edinburgh.....

And I am being picked up on everybodies TV ariel. Mwa ha ha.....

I don't know what it is thats making you stupid but its working!-----------------------------------I'm away to Morningside for a fish supper-Team Buddies

Posted: 27th Sep 2002
Shoot.
Another great thread that I got into late, now all the good stuff I wanted to say has already illustrated, and far better than i could have at that. Oh well.

Everything is relative, some things I believe were meant to be, but we still have our free will and we should always have a choice.

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
Pele, no offence, only the week minded would believe that someone THAT IS DEAD! can talk, spirit or no spirit. It is hogwash, false and rigged for our viewing pleasure for those who wish to watch such rubbish on TV.

Then again predicting the future is real, though the only human ever to do it that I believe had a deamon inside of her!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
My dad and I were talking about fortune telling just the other day. This came about because I am just starting to get into Tarot cards. He thinks (and I agree) that if a fortune teller knows the question and manipulates the cards to say what they think, that is wrong. I also think fortune telling where they say: "divorced twice..married 3 times..."-whatever. Thats what I like about Tarot and Runes...I don't think they r quite like that. If someone wants me to read their tarot I just say, "u can tell me the question or not, it is up to u to believe this or not...I am only a beginner remember." and then read exactly what my book says for that card. I also believe that Tarot cards, runes etc is just the unconcious working through the cards etc. I personally do not like Numerology...I don't know if I believe that my name has anything to do with my future...I got one of those "married, divorced" things from my name. I quite like rolling dice though...
If u choose to believe it, I respect u, if u don't, i respect u 2. its ur choice...but I think u should take any answers as a window...not fate.
Luv, huggies & respect
Fwirl

Neo:Wow, that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a better one. How about I give you the finger and you give me my phone call?

Posted: 26th Sep 2002
I once played poker with tarot cards...I got a full house and 3 people died.



Raph

Posted: 27th Sep 2002
Ray, you believe what you want. I will believe in what I have experienced. That is still no reason to insult someone for their beliefs. I believe in reincarnation, and because of that, the human spirit/soul never dies or is silenced.

Fwirl, numerology isn't meant to predict the future. Properties are assigned to numbers and those numbers to your name which then is meant to describe your personality. My friend does numerology for a profession (the one who also does psychometry). My name was changes when I was adopted. We found my original name described my personality to a "t" while the changed name lacked quite a bit in accuracy. Again, popular misconception of the art form.

The thing we should be asking is why seemingly intelligent people pay lots of hard earned dollars on quack pots who claim to see the future?
Our society has people so wired up and stressed that people fear the unknown and can not handle the mystery of tomorrow. Which is truly sad I think because discovering the unknown is what life is all about.

N8...what are your opinions? Many have been given here and I know your eloquence is a welcome addition, even if it just to voice a fresh perspective on an opinion already made!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 27th Sep 2002

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Brick Layer:
Actually on my way home tonight I was diffracted a number of times....

there are now loads of me about terrorising Edinburgh.....

And I am being picked up on everybodies TV ariel. Mwa ha ha.....

---

Yes, but because being diffracted doesn't increase the amount of BrickLayer that there is, all the diffractions are smaller than the original and fainter...

*shudder* I remember having to study this stuff. It was a nightmare!

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 27th Sep 2002
Actually Mike I wanted to talk about me being subject to constructive and deconstructive interference but Allie thought it may be taken in "another way"

Pah, anyway, loved the poker with Tarot cards thing - that kept me laughing solidly for a full five minutes

All in all its all a load of old cobblers all this mumbo jumbo about fortune telling and quantum mechanics too - now where is my voodoo calculator...

I don't know what it is thats making you stupid but its working!-----------------------------------I'm away to Morningside for a fish supper-Team Buddies

Posted: 27th Sep 2002
~Thanks Pele...that made things a bit clearer(Numerology)
~with the example, i personally don't like it when the fortune teller said "3 husband u will be happy." i think any good fortune teller will NOT say anything like that.
~I looked in the tv guide I had at home and there was about 6 different Tarot readers in the adds section.
~my friends uncle was asked to write the horoscopes for a newspaper...even though he knew nothing about writing horoscopes and the people that employed him knew that.
~after all that I still believe in it...but I don't belive its chance...therefore how could they do a reading over the internet? I believe its the unconcious.
~Pele, we should have a chat sometime, sounds like your right in the know.
Luv, huggies & respect
Lyd's

Neo:Wow, that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a better one. How about I give you the finger and you give me my phone call?

Posted: 1st Oct 2002
did anyone catch that david suzuki show 'the nature of things' on intuiition? it contained an incedibly fascinating (if it's your thang) quantum rationalisation of the intuition that we perceive on a macroscopic level, including observing it in repeatable experiments! look it up under 'quantum holograms' the dual(wave/particle) nature of quamtum particles explaining what some call 'psychic' information!
I don't yet believe it, but it is a clear and brave step in filling in the gap between what is proven and what is observed!
In the show, the steps to providing intuition (something i believe in with vigour) with legitimacy were lined out. yay!

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always