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Forums > Social Discussion > Foxfire Hypnotica shut down by police
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posted:
We had a fire show in the park, our first ever street performance with poi, devil sticks, juggling, fire eating, belly dancing, and live drums. We got $25 in tips before the cop said where's your permit?
Now, I asked several fire fighters and a few cops at different times this summer, and explained what we were doing (here in Lexington, Kentucky) for our gigs. We follow HOP safety rules and even spray our hair with water. We love to wear leather and suede, we keep the crowd at a safe distance, we keep the fuel separate from the lighting area, we swing off excess fuel in a safe manner.
None of the men in charge knew of any permit for this sort of thing, so I'm thinking, all these cars were driving by for the University of Kentucky March Madness Basketball thing at Rupp Arena, and they don't know what they see, but they see fire in the park, and call 911. The cops get fussy and send someone to make it stop. So, the officer says, "Where's your permit?"
What do you have to do in other cities. I think this is just new to our city, and they don't know who I should be calling for a permit. I have been given the runaround on the phone, and even the fire inspector did not have any sort of permit to give. He sent me to the mayor's office, and now I am in conversation with them, but would like to have a head's up on how it's done in other cities in case it is open to offer suggestions in our favor and Lexington's at the same time.
We can't afford $20 for some permit every single freakin' time we light up!!!
And I imagine it's gonna be something like that. It will just HAVE to be worked out differently, because Lexington needs to have cool stuff like this. They keep talking and growing "urban." 
Anybody have info or suggestions?
We had a fire show in the park, our first ever street performance with poi, devil sticks, juggling, fire eating, belly dancing, and live drums. We got $25 in tips before the cop said where's your permit?
Now, I asked several fire fighters and a few cops at different times this summer, and explained what we were doing (here in Lexington, Kentucky) for our gigs. We follow HOP safety rules and even spray our hair with water. We love to wear leather and suede, we keep the crowd at a safe distance, we keep the fuel separate from the lighting area, we swing off excess fuel in a safe manner.
None of the men in charge knew of any permit for this sort of thing, so I'm thinking, all these cars were driving by for the University of Kentucky March Madness Basketball thing at Rupp Arena, and they don't know what they see, but they see fire in the park, and call 911. The cops get fussy and send someone to make it stop. So, the officer says, "Where's your permit?"
What do you have to do in other cities. I think this is just new to our city, and they don't know who I should be calling for a permit. I have been given the runaround on the phone, and even the fire inspector did not have any sort of permit to give. He sent me to the mayor's office, and now I am in conversation with them, but would like to have a head's up on how it's done in other cities in case it is open to offer suggestions in our favor and Lexington's at the same time.
We can't afford $20 for some permit every single freakin' time we light up!!!
And I imagine it's gonna be something like that. It will just HAVE to be worked out differently, because Lexington needs to have cool stuff like this. They keep talking and growing "urban." Anybody have info or suggestions?
Namaste,
Devakasi (Divinity Shining)
SILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
Posted:
It could be that you need a permit if you;re getting money, cos busking is illegal in a lot of cities without a licence
It could be that you need a permit if you;re getting money, cos busking is illegal in a lot of cities without a licence
Proudly Owned By The BMVC
Are You Sniffing My Mitten?
SILVER Member
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
Posted:
Here in Perth, Australia you actually need to have a special permit to busk on the streets.
Don't know how much it costs but you pay for a year or something (apparently it isn't that expensive) and then you have permission to do busking for money.
See it doesn't matter how much you think you are safe sometimes things just go wrong.....so the fees that you pay to busk go towards insurance for the city in case someone or something gets damaged.
Maybe that is the kind of permit they were talking about.
Maybe ring your local council and see if they know if you have to have a specific licence or permit in order to busk on the streets.
Here in Perth, Australia you actually need to have a special permit to busk on the streets.
Don't know how much it costs but you pay for a year or something (apparently it isn't that expensive) and then you have permission to do busking for money.
See it doesn't matter how much you think you are safe sometimes things just go wrong.....so the fees that you pay to busk go towards insurance for the city in case someone or something gets damaged.
Maybe that is the kind of permit they were talking about.
Maybe ring your local council and see if they know if you have to have a specific licence or permit in order to busk on the streets.
GOLD Member
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
I believe that in the town I live in (when i'm not at uni now) in the UK you had to have a permit to busk and were charged for the good busking places. There was quite possibly a list they had to put there names on so everyone who could pay could take there turns in such places.
Then again I have no idea where I remember that from so I could be making it up entirely.
Also if its public land you usually need public liability insurance (which is entirely seperate from an insurance company you sort yourself) or get told to stop. You should have it anywhere you spin though as something can always go wrong however safe you are.
I believe that in the town I live in (when i'm not at uni now) in the UK you had to have a permit to busk and were charged for the good busking places. There was quite possibly a list they had to put there names on so everyone who could pay could take there turns in such places.
Then again I have no idea where I remember that from so I could be making it up entirely.
Also if its public land you usually need public liability insurance (which is entirely seperate from an insurance company you sort yourself) or get told to stop. You should have it anywhere you spin though as something can always go wrong however safe you are.
"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie
"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah
SILVER Member
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posted:
What sort of company would provide that kind of liability insurance?
What sort of company would provide that kind of liability insurance?
Namaste,
Devakasi (Divinity Shining)
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
you shouldn't need public liability insurance just to have a spin tho. i'd go search for similar threads cause this has definitley come up before, or go ask on tribe in one of the us forums.
R
you shouldn't need public liability insurance just to have a spin tho. i'd go search for similar threads cause this has definitley come up before, or go ask on tribe in one of the us forums.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
GOLD Member
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
I mainly meant performance wise not just for spins.
I mainly meant performance wise not just for spins.
"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie
"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
if your busking in my city, as soon as you mention the word "fire" they say "public liability insurance" (which costs $400 and last for a year),
however we spin every week on parliment house lawns in plain view of the public, last year in summer the police tried to stop us by continuously showing up and saying we needed a licence, then when we beat them at that arguement they tell us to leave, so we go up the street to another park, in winter they never bother us. eventually they just stop coming, since our meet has been regular for about five years.
if your busking in my city, as soon as you mention the word "fire" they say "public liability insurance" (which costs $400 and last for a year),
however we spin every week on parliment house lawns in plain view of the public, last year in summer the police tried to stop us by continuously showing up and saying we needed a licence, then when we beat them at that arguement they tell us to leave, so we go up the street to another park, in winter they never bother us. eventually they just stop coming, since our meet has been regular for about five years.
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posted:
Thanks for your responses. We had to meet with some captains from the fire prevention bureau to describe our whole set up, and there was no permit so far in Lexington, unless it's a paid performance, and then there appears to be a permit from the department of revenue, or if there's a performance inside a place, then we have to have the state fire marshal's permit. We are thinking of all pitching in for liability as a group, but we are not LLC'd. We may have to form a corporation to get liability, or get liability as separate performers.
We very likely could end up spending money just to perform, which doesn't make any sense, if we don't make enough money back, or if we just break even. Are there any other groups out there experiencing the same questions? I think I will get on tribe and talk to some people there.
Thanks for your responses. We had to meet with some captains from the fire prevention bureau to describe our whole set up, and there was no permit so far in Lexington, unless it's a paid performance, and then there appears to be a permit from the department of revenue, or if there's a performance inside a place, then we have to have the state fire marshal's permit. We are thinking of all pitching in for liability as a group, but we are not LLC'd. We may have to form a corporation to get liability, or get liability as separate performers.
We very likely could end up spending money just to perform, which doesn't make any sense, if we don't make enough money back, or if we just break even. Are there any other groups out there experiencing the same questions? I think I will get on tribe and talk to some people there.
Namaste,
Devakasi (Divinity Shining)
BRONZE Member
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Troupe Leader and founder, Fire and Steel
241 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
go to www.clownsrus.com for insurance. they have good rates. as for the permit issue, you'll find info at www.nafaa.org . the problem you'll have when busking is that it's sporadic income, just like performance. the busking will be a more steady income, but pro performances will pay more, generally. this is the point where you just have to accept the title "starving artists." we all are, really. unless you spin regularly at a club, and even then the pay generally sucks compared to the risk and time you put into it.
Fire and Steel, my troupe, generally breaks even or minimizes its losses by busking and taking any private gig it can. we have yet to do the club scene because the stages in the placews we could get in portland are just this side of claustrophobic, and no good for our styles. (we like to move about, not just stand there and work the prop.) but i don't know about your area, you may wish to check out the nightlife, make some flyers once you're insured, and seed the area.
go to www.clownsrus.com for insurance. they have good rates. as for the permit issue, you'll find info at www.nafaa.org . the problem you'll have when busking is that it's sporadic income, just like performance. the busking will be a more steady income, but pro performances will pay more, generally. this is the point where you just have to accept the title "starving artists." we all are, really. unless you spin regularly at a club, and even then the pay generally sucks compared to the risk and time you put into it.
Fire and Steel, my troupe, generally breaks even or minimizes its losses by busking and taking any private gig it can. we have yet to do the club scene because the stages in the placews we could get in portland are just this side of claustrophobic, and no good for our styles. (we like to move about, not just stand there and work the prop.) but i don't know about your area, you may wish to check out the nightlife, make some flyers once you're insured, and seed the area.
Frederick the Reckless,
Troupe Leader,
Fire and Steel
SILVER Member
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
newbie
17 posts
Location: Kentucky, USA
Posted:
Muchas gracias, Frederick!
and happy Halloween.
Muchas gracias, Frederick!
and happy Halloween. Namaste,
Devakasi (Divinity Shining)
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