Forums > Technical Discussion > new grip material

Posted: 11th May 2005
i will say that i have made some grips using nylong rope for some friends, who use them as grips to use for poi tosses, and while those are not flame proof, they are really cheap, so i guess those could work. i also make a pair of wooden grips, or rather put an eyebolt through a wooden knob, and use it as a grip for tossing poi. maybe those could work?

i would like somehting to attach the snakes to my hands, though, i think. i dont plan on doing any tosses with my snakes, and would like, at least for now, to be assured they arent going to be flying anywhere...

Posted: 11th May 2005
You could try heavy canvas, or kevlar... a touch more expensive, but mostly fire proof.

Yellow and blue make green.

Posted: 11th May 2005
oh i never even though of kevlar

that makes sense.

Posted: 12th May 2005
You could use leather from a cow that died of loneliness...

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

Posted: 12th May 2005
kevlar is the best vegan alternative to leather, however it does soak up paraffin more than nylon/leather, to you need to be careful. Personally I made snakes with a few inches of ball chain between the handles and wick, so if you keep them spinning there's no chance of the handles burning

Posted: 12th May 2005
yeah my snakes have about 3 inches of chain too. i just dont want a repeat of last time, when someone elase was using the same soak bucket as me an apparently dripped some fuel on my grip, so when i lit up my fingers caught fire. i dropped the snake in time not to get burned, but couldnt put it out in time to save the nylon... i wasnt even close to saving it... at least with leather or kevlar if someone drips on it, it will light, but i can put it out and it will not be ruined...

if a cow died of loneliness, isnt that enough suffering already? what hack the thing to pieces and use pieces of its, bosy, as if i owned it or it owed something to me, neither of which are true??? maybe you should befirend the cow and play in the field with it so it isnt lonely....

Posted: 12th May 2005
i eat kevlar and i vote.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Posted: 12th May 2005
hmm i am leaning towards kevlar, though right now, in the time being, i have just been holding my molten my grips in my hands and it is working out, i like the feel of it for the snakes. i was planning on making some wooden grips for my regular poi to make releases easier once school is over and i have more practice time (I am writing my last paper now i will be done in 3 hours and home in two days!!!) and i might just make wooden grips for these too. but i have a hard time doing anything on a horizontal plane when holding the grips, and i do better horizontal stuff, especially 3beat thread the needle over my head, when i have my fingers in loops. so the debate rages on. hmm

Posted: 13th May 2005
don't rule out using metal rings as grips. I replaced my normal handles with a couple of rings when learning throws. Completely fire proof (at paraffin temperatures anyway), but obviously more heat conductive

Posted: 13th May 2005
a friend suggested that, but then we both were concerned with catching the rings after a toss, as well as getting your fingers back around the ring...

what diameter ring have you found to work well?

Thanks!
FO

Posted: 13th May 2005
actually i didn't find any that work well (mainly due to lack of non over priced hardware stores where i used to live and lack of money), so I taught myself how to catch nylon handles and slip my fingers back in whilst still spinning instead.

It's up to you thou, you can use balls too as handles. If you're interested in doing throws then experimenting with different weighted handles will give you different throws (eg if you have one the same weight as the heads you can get an isolated throw going). Just experiment and find what works for you

Posted: 22nd May 2005
I use cotton rope on my staves, which will streach a bit and need tentioning after a while. at about $1 per meter (aust) it cheep. It's jsut likea wick if it get fuel on it but if you put it out fairly fast it wont be damaged. The ring Idea could work well but you could wrap them in a light cotton to stop heat and reduce slip. a very light/tight layer of cotton wont burn easily as if it is wrapped tight as there is little oxygen.

BRETT

"The company of those that seek the truth is
always preferable to those who think they have
found it"

Terry Pratchet
Monsterous Regiment

Posted: 22nd May 2005
'if a cow died of loneliness, isnt that enough suffering already? what hack the thing to pieces and use pieces of its, bosy, as if i owned it or it owed something to me, neither of which are true??? maybe you should befirend the cow and play in the field with it so it isnt lonely....'

off-topic, but:

1. using bits of its body doesn't cause any more suffering
and
2. when I die, I hope that my body will be put to good use: i.e. organ donations. it'd be a waste to do otherwise.

i'm vegetarian, btw.

ture na sig

Posted: 22nd May 2005
depends on your ideas of suffering. being raised just so its bits and pieces can be made into more bits and pieces is suffering.

many vegans and other animal rights activists will insist that keeping a pet, the willing enslavement of another sentient being, is suffering, both to yourself and your captive.

being a vegetarian and not abusing animals are two entirely different thigns... and thats the vegan and the buddhist in me fusing into one multifaceted platform of animal rights, NOT me just arguing for the sake of arguing.

HOWEVER everyone makes their own choices and lives with the reprucussions and i dont mean to sound like i am jusging any one, cuz i am not... especially if you ahve to incentive to give up meat, which is a bold and important step in the right direction in the fight of animal rights. so im just ebing nitpicky, but by no means be personally offended... although i do not condone the use of animal products or the enslavement of animals or the condescending arrogance of humans in their domination of animals, or the propogation of more suffering intoa world already over-saturated with it, and i will actively fight and petition against it in the ways most available and worthwhile to me, i am in no way maing personal judgments and everyone is free to eat/kill/wear/enslave whatever they wish, within legal limitations, of course.

even i am not perfect... i dont eat honey because of the fact that commercial honeyfarms kill thousands of bees while harvesting the honey because it is cheaper and easier than harvesting it without hurting them (honey being the one and only animal product that can be harvested with absolutely no harmful effects on the animal, including no enslavement.... but $$$ spekas louder than ethics) but at the same time that i refuse honey i do eat refined sugar... and all refined sugar, while it has vegetarian ingredients (obviously, it is just sugarcane), the process of refining it involves using bone-char, using the bones of animals burned and ground as filtering devices.. so i am a hypocrite too, mainly because i lack the fiscal means to support myself on a diet free of refined sugar, though i hope to eventually..

the point of the story - dont be mean to animals, they just want to live too... but if you are mean to 'em, as long as it is within legal limits (and it ISNT VEAL!) then go ahead and go crazy, i wont think less of you for it...

Posted: 22nd May 2005
and if you were wandering around randomly one day and found a dead cow that had never been kept as a pet or slave and had lived its entire life in freedom on lush green pastures then not it isnt suffering.

i still dont like the idea of USING animals though, whether alive or dead. while i can volunteer my body for organ donations, a cow cant volunteer its body for leather. and besides, no one is going to wear my liver for the next thirty years... at least, i hope not...

i dont know, i just think using animals is wrong. if you are going to kill an animal then by all means use all of it, it is better than killing it and throwing "useful" bits away. but animals dont die (in the anture) for our leisure. if they die, the body deserves respect, and i appreciate that some thinks that means using it, where as i think it means burnign ti and letting it be free from suffering in life and death and hopefully be reborn ina better lifetime

Posted: 22nd May 2005
Jesus, why do people keep hijacking threads to go over Ethical discourses??

Can we have a new Forum entitled "Ethics" please? And while you're at it, how about "Meta-Physics"??

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Posted: 23rd May 2005

Written by:

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and all refined sugar, while it has vegetarian ingredients (obviously, it is just sugarcane), the process of refining it involves using bone-char

---

Not true, there's many sources of activated carbon (also used in water filters). Bone char has been used extensively in the past because it's cheap, not because it's the only source. Albeit mainly due to the kosher movement rather than vegan, a lot of sugar (in the uk at least) does not use bone char for refining. One of the UK's main refiners (Tate&Lyle) uses plant based material (such as coconut shell).

Posted: 23rd May 2005
I use door knobs for grips. You can buy relatively small ones and they are perfect. They come in a variety of shapes and they have a pre-drilled holes for you to screw a vine-loop into.

They are great for throws, much easier to grip again once you've thrown.

IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"

Posted: 23rd May 2005
door knobs make a lot of sense....

in the US, with the exceptions of organic or unrefined sugars, bone char is used almost exclusively. dont forget, the us is one of the few countries in the highly-developed world to NOT HAVE ANY regulations about battery cage eggs. My friend is studying in New Zealand right now and he emailed me a photo of a Pringles can with a little label on the back that had "vegetarian" and "vegan" boxes, the former being checked off... NOTHING like that exists in america... it would cost too much money... companies already are made that they have to pay one or more rabbis to get the kosher symbol on their products, they are not going to pay another person to give a vegetarian/vegan label.... and the US doesnt really care much about that....

so, yes, in the US - all refined sugar, unless explicitly stated otherwise, is not vegetarian. Also, any fruit that is out of season that does not have an organic label is most likely not vegetarian, as the regulations on hormoe use are very loose (aka if you get non-organic strawberries in the winter they have been injected with fish hormore to allow them to survive the cold weather... this is info the company will tell you, it is not secret, but it is alos not denoted on the label, because no one would buy fishy strawberries if they realized all the chemicals involved in the process...)

It is hard to compare US and any other civilized country in these regards, because the US doesnt care about anything as far as food ethics are concerned...

Posted: 24th May 2005
one idea i havent tried it yet, but use atleast a flame retardent material. just get some kevlar grips covered in nomex or you if your you can pick up some flame retardent chemicals to soak the grips in. ive heard stories of people coating nylon dresses in flame retardent chems, and twirling flame, and not turning into a giant fireball.





Roscoflamex C26 is a concentrated flame retardant that effectively treats natural-fiber textiles, paper products, and other cellulosic materials.



Roscoflamex S33 effectively flameproofs many synthetic fabrics, such as polyesters, nylons, acrylics and rayons, as well as many cotton/synthetic blends



FF4L is a general use fabric protector that can be used to effectively treat most fabrics, both natural and synthetic, plus other cellulosic materials.



if your concerned about the toxcisity of these just find the MSDS on it



i found all this info at https://www.bearclawmfg.com/o_rosco.html

Posted: 24th May 2005
yeah i know all about rosco products i work at a theatre and rosco is a leading supplier of different theatre supplies. i think it would be easier to just get.make kevlar grips than make nylon ones and soak them, as the flame retardant is expensive and not something i would use a lot of...

in reality, since i have been too lazy to build anything, i have been spinning with my nylon grips and havent had a problem since that first time when i got fuel on my grip... so maybe i will just hope for the best and stick with thsi for now (?)

Posted: 24th May 2005
i do say watch out for the nylon straps, mine had fuel drip down the chain onto them and i ended up getting second degree burns on the back side of 3 of my fingers. so just be careful.

Posted: 25th May 2005
'Jesus, why do people keep hijacking threads to go over Ethical discourses??

Can we have a new Forum entitled "Ethics" please? And while you're at it, how about "Meta-Physics"??'

BECAUSE ALL QUESTIONS ULTIMATELY BOIL DOWN TO ETHICS AND METAPHYSICS, DAMNIT

ture na sig

Posted: 25th May 2005

Written by: sethis

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'Jesus, why do people keep hijacking threads to go over Ethical discourses??

---

The thread wasn't hijacked at all. If you'd read the first post you'd have seen that it was started by someone who has an ethical objection to the most common grip material; leather. Perhaps the topic could have been more appropriate, such as "alternative grip materials to leather", but it's a fair question, and which I've also looking into in the past.



As you've not actually contributed anything constructive to the thread, why do you care anyway?

Posted: 27th May 2005
I agree with quiet, an I'm veg too.
That info's _disturbing_, Oberon.
To the practicality question though what sort of places sell flame retardent materials? I want to make some fire fingers out of gloves, wire and kevlar rolled and screwed on the ends so I'm probably going to get some denim gloves ones made up. I could cover them in kevlar or havethem made out of it, though there's still the absorbency problem. If I can get some chemicals to prevent flames getting to the gloves it would be perfect.

Chucks nuns
Property of mynci and blu_valley, and proud of it.

Posted: 27th May 2005
The best place to find fire retardant/flame resistant clothing (eg gloves) is industrial clothing suppliers. Have a look around on the net, the prices can be suprisingly cheap (ie they can afford to as they sell thousands of the things to companies on a regular basis, not novelty items to a minority such as fire performers). In the UK you can get pretty decent looking kevlar sleeves for 4 pounds, which is cheaper than buying the kevlar from anywhere I know and making them yourself. I guess they're designed for butchers etc, but they work for wraps too